Swollen cloaca with blisters/bumps?

[ZenHerper]

his vet sent his xrays to a "specialist" who informed them that it was an "object." Of course its possible it could be a stone but I would hope the specialist would be able to tell the difference and thats why they said "object" as opposed to a stone...
Anything is possible though. I wont rule it out until he passes whatever this is. IF it is a stone, do the same rules apply for what Ive been doing to help him pass it?

Stones are very jagged on the outer crust...they get stuck to the lining of the cloaca (in addition to being too large and too hard to push through the vent). Mineral oil lubrication of the vent will be more comfortable than pushing a lot of fecal mass from above.

If you can get a jpeg of the xray and post it here, you can get some opinions about this being a stone, an over-calcified egg, or a swallowed foreign object.

What is the "specialist" a specialist of? Of radiology? Of reptile medicine and surgery? Of exotic species in general? Makes a big difference. Reptiles are quite different from exotic mammals, and tortoises are quite different from other kinds of reptiles (and can be quite different from turtles, even). Unless a radiologist sees a lot of reptile films, they may not recognize a stone outside of the bladder in this way.

How long has the mass been visible to you in the tail this way?

 

[motherofCHAOS]

Stones are very jagged on the outer crust...they get stuck to the lining of the cloaca (in addition to being too large and too hard to push through the vent). Mineral oil lubrication of the vent will be more comfortable than pushing a lot of fecal mass from above.

If you can get a jpeg of the xray and post it here, you can get some opinions about this being a stone, an over-calcified egg, or a swallowed foreign object.

What is the "specialist" a specialist of? Of radiology? Of reptile medicine and surgery? Of exotic species in general? Makes a big difference. Reptiles are quite different from exotic mammals, and tortoises are quite different from other kinds of reptiles (and can be quite different from turtles, even). Unless a radiologist sees a lot of reptile films, they may not recognize a stone outside of the bladder in this way.

How long has the mass been visible to you in the tail this way?

I will call and try to get a copy of the xrays emailed over ?? the tail swelling is recent. the first picture I took and sent to the doctor is from 11/22.

I intially brought him into the vet 11/05 because he was sleeping a lot and sitting in his water a lot. I suspected he was sick. They gave me antibiotics after not finding anything other than high WBC and sent him home. Weve been giving the shots every 3 days. He seemed to be improving. Fast forward to 11/22 tale swelling, red tissue, ect. Wondering if this impaction/object issue was the issue the WHOLE time causing the infection?

Sick to my stomach thinking hes been like this for so long and makes me more nervous he wont pass this on his own.

 

[ZenHerper]

I will call and try to get a copy of the xrays emailed over ?? the tail swelling is recent. the first picture I took and sent to the doctor is from 11/22.

I intially brought him into the vet 11/05 because he was sleeping a lot and sitting in his water a lot. I suspected he was sick. They gave me antibiotics after not finding anything other than high WBC and sent him home. Weve been giving the shots every 3 days. He seemed to be improving. Fast forward to 11/22 tale swelling, red tissue, ect. Wondering if this impaction/object issue was the issue the WHOLE time causing the infection?

Sick to my stomach thinking hes been like this for so long and makes me more nervous he wont pass this on his own.

Well, it may need surgery. Yes, anything like a foreign body, hairball, bezoar, etc. in the stomach/intestines or a bladder stone in the bladder/cloaca can cause the body's immune system to react.

Optimally, a surgeon would be fully familiar with tortoise anesthesia and surgery. Are you able to say where you are located?

If he's been pushing since 11/22, I don't know that I'd wait too much longer before at least consulting with a qualified, experienced surgeon.

 

[Maggie3fan]

I'm sure it depends on where the obstruction is in the GI tract.
@motherofCHAOS, I hope the pumpkin, Soaks and Mineral oil suppositories Help Chaos flush this out of it's system.
Any Idea what he could have consumed in his enclosure?

I was thinking that the blockage is right at the cloaca at least that's how it looks to me

 

[Maggie3fan]

Were up this morning doing LONG soaks. Had some more straining but nothing has come out yet. Will be doing more pumpkin and lactulose in a few.

Hoping he is able to pass this on his own. Vet did not mention any other options so I am a bit worried if he isnt able to pass it what the next steps are... positive vibes please. ? this mumma is worried.

Stick him in the car and go for a ride...my Sulcata would poop every time...Maybe youe

 

[mastershake]

if its not to far up the tract usually they can be put lightly under and a good vet or a specialist can go up and carefully pull it out if its not tooooo big. if its to large it may not come out on its own and might require surgery. we usually put them on pain meds and some anti inflammatory meds when they come in like this to try to help any swelling and pain. many times they will push enough after that to get them out. some cases do have to be removed as a said above and rarely do we need to do surgery unless there are many of them (to many to remove or let them pass) or they are simply to large. in some cases they can be given a light amount of something like oxytocin to help make them push it out. id like to be able to see the xrays if possible to see what it actually looks like. it could also be a regular stone they ate this does sometimes happen.

 

[motherofCHAOS]

Finally got the x-rays. I am not even sure what I am looking at or where the blockage is located ? This is a lot harder to understand than I thought...

Anyone else able to make heads or tails of this? Where is the blockage? How big? How much is behind it?

 

[ZenHerper]

The giant mass inside the tail is not as white as I'd expect with a bladder stone.

Are you sure this animal is male? (I'd be concerned about a male organ retracted badly up in a sort of knot.)

Is he still eating? On the (R) lateral image of the hind end, there does appear to be a *whatever* just behind the cloaca.

Are you working with a general veterinary office, or a reptile specialist group?

 

[mastershake]

same thing i was thinking you beat me to it. id have pretty much the same questions

 

[motherofCHAOS]

From what I understand, he is male. Has all the identifications of a male and has had a previous prolaps in the past which required surgery in which they identified him as male.

he is eating like a savage still everyday.

I am located in MI and we are hard pressed in my area to find anyone who will see a reptile..let alone a tortoise. I am working with a specialty hospital for small animals and exoitcs but the knowledge is limited due to tortoises not being a popular pet choice.

you are concerned with the tail area and understandably so given the swelling and discoloration..however they seem to be more concerned with the area in the middle of him - that being what theyre calling a blockage and gas surrounding it? is this actually a blockage and gas?

 

[ZenHerper]

From what I understand, he is male. Has all the identifications of a male and has had a previous prolaps in the past which required surgery in which they identified him as male.

he is eating like a savage still everyday.

I am located in MI and we are hard pressed in my area to find anyone who will see a reptile..let alone a tortoise. I am working with a specialty hospital for small animals and exoitcs but the knowledge is limited due to tortoises not being a popular pet choice.

you are concerned with the tail area and understandably so given the swelling and discoloration..however they seem to be more concerned with the area in the middle of him - that being what theyre calling a blockage and gas surrounding it? is this actually a blockage and gas?

Well, yes. But only because nothing can get out of the vent, you know? So the abdominal blockage may be thought of as secondary to what is stuck up his butt.

Since he has a history of a stuck erection, I would see if he can be gassed a bit (light sedative) and have a scope view of what is sitting just above the vent. If that is bodily tissue, you don't want someone grabbing it with a probe or pick-ups and pulling on it.

If it's a lump of food with, say, hair wrapped in it, it can be manually removed carefully (unless it seems to be attached to something higher up...then it would require some surgical incision of some kind).

 

[motherofCHAOS]

Well, yes. But only because nothing can get out of the vent, you know? So the abdominal blockage may be thought of as secondary to what is stuck up his butt.

Since he has a history of a stuck erection, I would see if he can be gassed a bit (light sedative) and have a scope view of what is sitting just above the vent. If that is bodily tissue, you don't want someone grabbing it with a probe or pick-ups and pulling on it.

If it's a lump of food with, say, hair wrapped in it, it can be manually removed carefully (unless it seems to be attached to something higher up...then it would require some surgical incision of some kind).

I will contact the vets office first thing Monday to see about getting him in for a more invasive look at the booty. Hopefully we can get to the bottom of all of this soon ? This entire process has been so stressful and draining on him, I, and my bank account!

Thank you for all your advice! Much appreciated.

 

[ZenHerper]

Yeah, it's tough when you are working with otherwise competent, enthusiastic helpers who just don't have experience.

Another way to go would be to ask if they can seek a consultation with a university reptile department or zoo staff.

But if there is a scope on-site, I'd really like to see what-the-heck that blob is sooner rather than later.