supplements

[tortguy521]

Can anyone tell me What is the best calcium and vitamin supplement to use for my torts?.

thanks.

 

[tortoisenerd]

I think a pure calcium supplement is best, no additives. I also think D3 is not necessary with UVB access. Some disagree. The only supplement I use is Total Nutrition for Tortoises from CarolinaPetSupply.com. It's more of a treat--it's all natural ground up stuff they'd get in the wild. I use the calcium daily for my hatchling plus a cuttlebone, and the TNT a few times a week. I think the pure calcium is best. You don't want the fillers, so any reptile (or even human Calcium Carbonate powder) stuff will do. With a good diet supplements aren't really necessary, and you can easily overdo it. Some vitamins are fat soluble and can be toxic if you don't know what you're doing.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I also use the TNT from Joe and I keep cuttlebone in all my enclosures. They munch on the cuttlebone when their instincts tell them that they need calcium...I use the TNT 3 times a week

 

[sendie]

I use Rep-Cal Phosphorus-Free with D3 daily and the TNT a few times a week. I have cuttlebone with all of mine but so far none of them have even taken a nibble of one.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I use Rep-Cal Phosphorus-Free with D3 daily and the TNT a few times a week. I have cuttlebone with all of mine but so far none of them have even taken a nibble of one.

Be careful about using D-3. It is very easy to use too much D3, Danny can explain why that's a bad thing...

 

[tortoisenerd]

I'll give it a shot: D3 is fat soluble, so if the animal is getting too much, they cannot expel it in urine such as for water soluble vitamins if they have too much. That is why something like calcium is hard to over-do for a growing animal while D3 can be overdone, especially if you give a supplement in addition to what they make on their own from the UVB. Most of us that have the tort outside regularly or use a UVB bulb would have to be careful not to give too much D3. If they have a reliable UVB source, it's recommended not to even supplement it because of the dangers. Those that keep their torts awake for winter inside without UVB tend to supplement D3, and then stop when the torts are back outside for warmer months.

The cuttlebones will be used when needed by the tort. Sometimes they sit for months, and then the tort will get the urge to eat the whole thing! Also, the torts tend to let them sit at least until the fishy smell goes away. Mine ignored it for months and now takes little nibbles, especially when hungry and there is not food out, lol. They don't go bad, so as long as it isn't soiled you don't need to replace it.

 

[tortguy521]

so do you think i can just use TNT or something els and not use anyother supplements cuase i just want to use one thing and thats it.

thanks.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I'll give it a shot: D3 is fat soluble, so if the animal is getting too much, they cannot expel it in urine such as for water soluble vitamins if they have too much. That is why something like calcium is hard to over-do for a growing animal while D3 can be overdone, especially if you give a supplement in addition to what they make on their own from the UVB. Most of us that have the tort outside regularly or use a UVB bulb would have to be careful not to give too much D3. If they have a reliable UVB source, it's recommended not to even supplement it because of the dangers. Those that keep their torts awake for winter inside without UVB tend to supplement D3, and then stop when the torts are back outside for warmer months.

The cuttlebones will be used when needed by the tort. Sometimes they sit for months, and then the tort will get the urge to eat the whole thing! Also, the torts tend to let them sit at least until the fishy smell goes away. Mine ignored it for months and now takes little nibbles, especially when hungry and there is not food out, lol. They don't go bad, so as long as it isn't soiled you don't need to replace it.

Awesome!!! You are just awesome! What a great answer!...I'll try and remember it so I can use it next time D3 comes up...

 

[tortoisenerd]

I think at the very minimum you need a pure calcium supplement; the TNT is extra. In my opinion, the calcium content of the TNT is not known, and doesn't have enough for a growing tort (although it has some great stuff you can't buy at the grocery store or even grow as there are so many ingredients). Why not create your own little mix of calcium and TNT? I could probably approximate an amount for you if you wanted to mix both in a small tupperware, although I do them separate. Why do you only want one supplement? Two isn't too complicated. I put the calcium in a salt shaker and it works great. I don't think there is a good commercial supplement with calcium and the other stuff. Most have junk and fillers.

 

[tortguy521]

ok thanks i think i will just use them both but for the calcium should i use the phosphorous free with vitamin D3 or just a regular calcium supplement or could you reccomend me one and how much of each should i use. and should i get the TNT with probiotics or the one with out.

thanks.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I have straight powdered calcium in a salt /pepper shaker and TNT in another shaker and I use the calcium almost everyday and the TNT about 3 times a week. I try to feed a really good variety of food, in fact I work really hard at it with the hope that I can raise healthy tortoises without too many supplements needed. Just recently I was told Bob either has now or had MBD in the past because of the 'dip' along his dorsal scutes...So Ii really pour the calcium at him. It's prolly a residue MBD not current...if any of this makes sense let me know...cuz it sure is hard to write...lol

 

[Crazy1]

tortguy521, if your tort is small give it a couple shakes from the shaker daily and only 3 times a week of the TNT. If you get calcium carbonate from the drug store it is cheaper and has no fillers. If you buy one from the pet store you want Calcium that is phosphorous free without D3. TNT you will have to order it http://www.carolinapetsupply.com/ca...id=180&zenid=00b24e08989f6b51d6d36abe72f23504

Kate great explanation.

Maggie, what you said made sense to me. Place the calcium in a salt shaker. Place the TNT in another shaker. Shake Calcium on food every day. Shake TNT on food 3 times a week. Feed a good healthy varied diet. (did that cover it?)
Sorry to hear Bob had MBD but I am sure if he is climbing stairs he is fine now.

 

[Madkins007]

Supplements can be tricky. Some things to consider...
- It is difficult to overdose calcium as long as there is phosphorous, D3, and water in the diet.

- The best overall calcium is pure calcium carbonate. Some health food stores carry a pure powder from a brand called NOW. You can get reptile powder, which seems identical, for about three times the price per ounce. NOW is probably made to a higher standard as well since it is human stuff.

- It is EASY to overdose in fat-soluble vitamins since they stay in the tissues. These include D (even D3), A and E vitamins- and many supplements have a lot of A in them. Look for an approximate balance of A, D, and E in a ratio of about 100:10:1. You will quickly notice that a lot of supplements have a ratio of over 1000:10:1!

- Some name brand supplements have been tested and do not conform to their own labels. Many experts recommend grinding up human tablets instead- they meet higher quality control and labeling standards.

- On the other hand, many other experts say that supplemental vitamins are a bad idea and that the chelonians (and humans for that matter) should get the nutrients they need from good foods. Their argument is that the risk of overdosing is a bigger concern than the potential benefits. If you DO supplement, I think a balance makes sense- a SMALL pinch every week or so as insurance, but use a varied and proper diet for the main nutrients.

- I like the idea of TNT, but would feel better if there was a better nutritional analysis of the powder. If there is one and I am missing it, I would love a link to it!

- Most experts I have read agree that supplementing D3 is not a good idea since it is VERY difficult to monitor the dose each animal is getting. This includes D3 in calcium. Sunlight, dietary means (for forest species mostly), or UVB bulb seems to be the order of recommendation.

 

[tortoisenerd]

Agree with everything said above.

The human supplement is way cheaper and I prefer to buy something tested/regulated more. That said, I have a free sample I am still using! Little guy doesn't need much calcium so a little has gone a long way. Cuttlebone scrapings also work well but it's not as pure so you need more (somewhere I saw a percentage calcium but I can't remember now).

The typical tort owner does not feed a very good diet. Most of us here feed even better than typical, but not ideal either.

Madkins-The ingredients are listed on the website. They are all great things that are hard to find by the owner. With enough effort, you could probably look up some nutrition for each (but yes things not for human consumption are hard to find the nutrients on; I've tried). The cost of a nutritional analysis is high and would probably not tell the average tort owner much--they are all high nutrition weeds and such. The cost of the supplement is low, doesn't take much effort, and it's a large quantity too. I think my little tort actually likes it as well. I supplement it because I can only do so much to simulate the natural diet.

 

[sendie]

So if I'm understanding correctly, I need to go get a calcium supplement withOUT the D3? All this time I thought I was giving them the right stuff, my poor babies

 

[Stazz]

Well I've looked for Calcium EVERYWHERE here for Tallula, and havn't found any....so I took the initiative to scrape some off each day onto Tallula's food from the cuttlebone (which she eats even faster now! ) That should work the same way as her chomping on it right? She just walks over it in her enclosure, no bite marks, only claw marks in it hehe. SO you think thats good enough for her?

 

[tortoisenerd]

Stace-Try looking at a human supplement store for "Calcium Carbonate" powder. The cuttlebone works fine though too. Probably just need a tab more. My "pure" calcium supplement still only says 40% on the bottle, although it lists no other ingredients.

Sendie-There is argument on this, but in my opinion, if your tort has regular UVB access (bulb or outdoors), don't supplement D3.

 

[Stazz]

Thanks Kate - never thought that would be OK for a tort but that helps alot I'll make sure that it has nothing else in it before I get it!

 

[sendie]

Thanks Kate, I'll be going to our local nutrition store this weekend looking for the calcium carbonate. I surely don't want to be giving the wrong supplement!

 

[dmmj]

placing the calcium in a salt shaker, good idea I just hope it is labeled, lol dont want to put the wrong thing on your food when you want salt.