Sulcatas in Eastern WA

[Lance Hyatt]

I do not currently own a sulcata or any tortoises for that matter but I have been cruising many of the internet forums to increase my knowledge base. I have owned many reptiles in the past iguanas, box turtles, balls, monitors etc. Sadly I kept these animals when I was a teenager and quite frankly looking back I was a classic example of a very uninformed care taker, I wish the internet was available at that time the way it is now. Anyway I am planning on getting back into a herps and want to do everything right (which is why I seem to spend hours each night reading forums on anything and everything!). I own my own home and have 5 acres to play with so space is not an issue. I have a barn that is split in two. One side houses my kid's "petting zoo" 3 pygmy goats, 2 barn cats, chickens, ducks and one crazy rabbit. The other side is a separate shop area that basically stores junk right now. I would like to remodel (insulate and heat) the shop side into a herp/fish room. I have an interest in sulcatas because I would like to be able to take in animals that need rescues. RES, green iggies and sulcatas seem to be the three most overbought and undercared for herps out there. My concern is that I'm in eastern Washington (Ellensburg area, known for its Timothy hay ). Spring, summer and fall temps are fine but we have cold winters with snow on the ground about 3 months of the year. I can definitely provide a heated room, probably 10x10 approximately, and a huge outside pen but with our winters would a sulcata even be a possibility? If not I know that I can provide a quality indoor home for smaller species like [/i][/u]Russians, Greeks, etc but the big guys appeal to me. My wife and I keep English Mastiffs and they sound like the dog equivalent of sulcatas in the tortoise world. So long post (sorry) short, is maintaining a sulcata in a colder northern climate feasible and or appropriate. Thanks in advance for any replies and opinions.

P.S. I'm not rushing out right now looking for any animals I just want to plan the shop remodel correctly from the get go, do it right and do it once.

 

[Kayti]

Hi! You sound like you have the right mindset for a tortoise owner And that's really awesome that you're looking ito animals that need rescuing. But, I think most of the people on this forum will tell you that it would be cruel/extremely difficult to keep a Sulcata indoors for any amount of time.
The main issue I see is that even if you can devote a whole heated room to them, an adult is still going to want to dig a burrow, like so:

(EJ's pic)

It's not really practical to provide them with enough substrate indoors to be able to burrow like that. You said snow is on the ground for 3 months out of the year- I'm guessing that means even more time out of the year were temperatures would be too low. (Below 60's)
I have seen people keeping Sulcata's indoors, but they seem to be the exception rather than the rule.
Besides the burrowing, there are also the issues of space and ramming behaviors, as well as grazing- Sulcata's do best when allowed to graze grasses over a large amount of space, which is also not practical indoors.

I have a Sully, (about the size of my palm) so I've been thinking about this a lot, and I'll be interested to see what the more experienced members of this forum have to say. Welcome!

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Lance:

to the forum!

 

[tortoisenerd]

Welcome to the group! My personal thought is if you wanted to get into this, you would want much larger than 10 by 10 for the amount of time the Sulcata would need to be in the shed. Very very difficult to keep them happy penned up as they tend to ram walls and be destructive, as well as you are inhibiting from their natural need to dig burrows. What about finding a local tortoise group and offering your place during warmer months to foster any tortoises? This is a possible "trial run" of things. I am not saying it can't be done, but more that I don't think you should do it. I believe that animals deserve more than that sort of life (penned up in a shed). I agree with Kayti that you are looking at more than 3 months out of the year. There will also be a lot of days you likely would only let a Sulcata out midday and they would need the shed for most of the day plus the night.

 

[chadk]

I think I am pushing here in Western WA. But eastern WA would be even harder. Summers would be great, but winters not so much. Here, at least we have enough mild winter days that they can get out and graze for an hour here and there and not get cabin fever too bad. I guess if you had a nice sized shed constructed with the torts in mind, you could pull it off.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I live in Oregon and have an 80 pound Sulcata who lives in an insulated shed that's 12 x 20. It has a doggie door which I open most days. He has been out in temps below 60 and has decided to settle down and snooze the winter away. He basks under a Trex 160 watt bulb and plays with some toys I have for him. I spend some time in his shed with him everyday. I sit on the floor and he climbs on my lap and closes his eyes and sticks out his head for a neck rub. Some people think it's mean to keep a Sulcata in this cold weather but I think Bob is set up pretty good and he has adjusted well from his move from Calif to here. If he has the option to go out and he can see how cold it is he decides to stay in and he settles in nicely. So I think if you set one up in the other half of your barn and give him toys to play with and you visit him often and interact with him daily he will be grateful to live with you. It will be especially great in the spring and summer to have 5 acres to wander...I say YES! Get a homeless Sulcata and you won't ever be sorry...Bob thinks he's a dog and actually acts like one most days. He is a very social Sulcata and loves a neck rub and will almost roll over for a treat of squash...I would post a picture of him but my son recently updated my computer so I don't have acess to the 3 thousand or so pictures I have. But if I have done it right here is a link to the thread Bob vs the 100 pound pumpkin...you can see Bob in his pen...HTH

http://tortoiseforum.org/thread-10446-post-89307.html#pid89307

Yes, it works you just have to scroll up to see the Bob vs Pumpkin pictures...

 

[Kayti]

Bob is so awesome! I love this one:

Do you still keep him enclosed with cinder blocks? Does he not try to ram through them?

 

[Lance Hyatt]

Thanks for the responses back to my post. Another thougt, I have read a lot of posts about not housing different species together. Does this mean just not in the same enclosure or even in the same room. What I am thinking is about remodeling the shop with wrap-around tort tables about 2.5 wide with built in tracks for placing dividers. This would allow me to start younger torts in a smaller space and expand, or separate ones that are too territorial. Back to my original thought, would keeping smaller species, like Russians for example, in the tables above and giving the entire floor space to a sulacata work or is that too close a proximity for different species. In regards to the space issue the shop currently has my work out room in one end, this is where I figured I would start out the tort room. I measured and it is actually 10x14. Maybe for a sulcata I could tear down the wall, insulate the entire shop and open up a 10x30 space. I'm not too worried about them destroying walls by ramming or clawing. Like I said I have mastiffs, their indoor doggie room is a tile floor and tile walls about 4 ft up. Mastiffs don't ram or dig drywall, they eat it. I would have to find a place for my weights and the treadmill. Maybe a raised loft over part of the tortoise room. Could be a pretty cool place to exercise, hit the treadmill watch the tortoises below..........my brain is churning.

PS-maggie3fan are you in Western or Eastern Oregon? Eastern Oregon's climate is pretty similar to E. WA.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Thanks for the responses back to my post. Another thougt, I have read a lot of posts about not housing different species together. Does this mean just not in the same enclosure or even in the same room. What I am thinking is about remodeling the shop with wrap-around tort tables about 2.5 wide with built in tracks for placing dividers. This would allow me to start younger torts in a smaller space and expand, or separate ones that are too territorial. Back to my original thought, would keeping smaller species, like Russians for example, in the tables above and giving the entire floor space to a sulacata work or is that too close a proximity for different species. In regards to the space issue the shop currently has my work out room in one end, this is where I figured I would start out the tort room. I measured and it is actually 10x14. Maybe for a sulcata I could tear down the wall, insulate the entire shop and open up a 10x30 space. I'm not too worried about them destroying walls by ramming or clawing. Like I said I have mastiffs, their indoor doggie room is a tile floor and tile walls about 4 ft up. Mastiffs don't ram or dig drywall, they eat it. I would have to find a place for my weights and the treadmill. Maybe a raised loft over part of the tortoise room. Could be a pretty cool place to exercise, hit the treadmill watch the tortoises below..........my brain is churning.

PS-maggie3fan are you in Western or Eastern Oregon? Eastern Oregon's climate is pretty similar to E. WA.

I am in Corvallis. Yes you can put smaller tortoises in tort tables above where Sulcata roam, but you don't want to keep different species where they have contact. Bob has Queenie living above him; she is...half T.h.boettgeri and half T.h.hermanni. But they don't ever come in contact. Queenie has her tort table in Bob's shed is all...

 

[Lance Hyatt]

Thanks, maybe my best bet is to design the tortoise table first and start with some rescued smaller species such as Russians. I can do this without any extensive remodeling and then see where that leads me. If keeping tortoises is as addictive as I read I will probably end up converting the entire barn into a turtle sanctuary. Thanks again for the info and any other advice or info would be appreciated.

 

[chadk]

Is your barn going to have a generator?

My torts have 2 sources of heat at all times during cold weather. A space heater + a basking bulb. Just to other day the basking bulb burned out. It had been getting down to 20 degrees at nights here, so it probably saved my big sullie that he also had a space heater in there. But if power goes out, I'm in trouble. Or, my torts are in trouble. If I'm there, I can deal with it, but if I'm gone, they could die. With your barn plans, I would think through your wiring capacity, back up heat sources, and power outage plans...

 

[Stephanie Logan]

Ugh, I hate to criticize, but please don't let your mastiffs get into the tortoise barn and chew up any torties! We've had photos of dog-chewed tortoises on this forum, and they are pretty distressing to view!

Maggie, I'm still dying to know what toys Bob plays with. I'll have to know so I can bring him present when I visit someday...

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Ugh, I hate to criticize, but please don't let your mastiffs get into the tortoise barn and chew up any torties! We've had photos of dog-chewed tortoises on this forum, and they are pretty distressing to view!

Maggie, I'm still dying to know what toys Bob plays with. I'll have to know so I can bring him present when I visit someday...

He has a red ball and a couple of plastic plant pots and a 5 gallon bucket right now. I just put stuff in there that he can push around and tear up. The ball is his only actual toy. He has a 5 gallon thin plastic pot like what you get from the nurseries? Just now I went out there to clean the mess made during the day and be social with him for a bit. So I'm cleaning and picking up poop and sweeping the hay back under Queenie's table and I moved that pot...and down inside of it is a perfect Sulcata turd. Now you please tell me how he got his a** up over that 5 gallon pot? It's tall! I am still chuckling over that.

---

Bob is so awesome! I love this one:

Do you still keep him enclosed with cinder blocks? Does he not try to ram through them?

I pounded rebar down in most of the blocks and he seems to have given up on pushing on them...

 

[Stephanie Logan]

Oh, that Bob! Another vivid image to laugh about!

He truly is an amazing character. You simply must write down these "incidents" in a Bob Book, as terryo (?) suggested. We must have an "Adventures of Bob" collection, with photos, for the TFO!

Did you document the telekinetic turd phenomenon with your camera?

 

[Lance Hyatt]

We have access to a generator for our camp trailer that could run the heaters that keep the current space warm right now in a pinch. Thankfully long power outages are few and far between where I live just because so many of the lines are underground. My mastiffs can't get to the barn let alone the driveway between the barn and their house. They are contained in their own space because they have the bad habit of eating things they shouldn't like small boulders and various deer or elk body parts they find in the woods, not pretty. They are great dogs but I don't trust them around the barn animals and a tortoise would be no different.

 

[Stephanie Logan]

Sorry to go off topic on you, Lance.

Your tortoise haven sounds like it will be a wonderful and interesting place. I envy you all that land, and carpentry skills to boot!