Sulcata enclosure question

[Haags21]

I have a baby sulcata and when built his enclosure he would spend time in this "hide" but after about a week he now spend all his time on the basking side. He'll go to the cooler side for his food and water but never to sleep or hangout. The cool side is usually right around 80 degrees and the hot side 95-100. Usually he'll burrow on the hot side when he wants to sleep. Is it normal that he doesn't use the cool side besides eating? Do I need to make any changes. I'll post a picture. Advice or suggestions are welcome.

 

[Jodie]

It looks really dry. I would cover the enclosure, add several inches of substrate and keep it moist, and bump the cool side temp up 3 to 5 degrees. Have you read the care guides in the Sulcata section?

 

[Haags21]

I mist it pretty regularly but I'll add more substrate. Yeah I've read tons of care guides. They're good for general information but I find I need advice on specific things to my situation. The cool side usually bounces from 78-85 based on the temp in my house. Is it normal that he burrows on the hot side. If I bump up the cool side do you think he'll spend more time over there? Also he's flipped a couple times and I've been worried about him flipping and getting dehydrated if I keep the side with the dishes too hot.

 

[Tom]

Most of the care guides out there in the world are old, outdated and wrong. They were based on incorrect assumptions about the wild years ago and the same wrong info has been parroted for years. You need to read this care sheet:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
Its not like the others, and it will explain the details you are missing.

Then read these:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

That will catch you up to speed.

Your enclosure is too open on top. Its letting all your heat and humidity out. Misting the surface does very little. You need to maintain the correct level of dampness in your substrate by dumping water into the substrate. How often and how much can very a lot depending on several factors. Its different for everyone and its different for the same person at different times of the year.

You need a humid hide.

Those clamps on your lamps always fail eventually. Its not safe to use them like that. Your fixtures should be suspended from overhead and this will allow you to easily adjust the height to get the right temps.

I don't see night heat over your enclosure. Is that what the second clamp lamp is holding? Infrared lights and colored bulbs should not be used for this purpose. Tortoises have better color vision than we do, so if you can see red or blue light, your tortoise can see it better.

How are you measuring those temps? What is the ambient temp in that room? When they stay on the warm side most of the time, it is an indication that things are too cool. Is he getting too cool at night? Bump the ambient up 5-10 degrees and see what he does then.

 

[Haags21]

Thank you. I'll read everything tomorrow. The second clamp is a red heat bulb. If I'm not suppose to use that for night time, what do you recommend? I have a digital probe that I used to monitor the temps. What temps are considered too hot? If I add a top and keep the substrate moist what changes to the hide in the pic do I need to make to help it be more humid and inviting? Also what level of humidity do I want to shoot for? Right now mines around 40%. What type of top would you recommend? Thank you for the help!

 

[Tom]

Thank you. I'll read everything tomorrow. The second clamp is a red heat bulb. If I'm not suppose to use that for night time, what do you recommend? I have a digital probe that I used to monitor the temps. What temps are considered too hot? If I add a top and keep the substrate moist what changes to the hide in the pic do I need to make to help it be more humid and inviting? Also what level of humidity do I want to shoot for? Right now mines around 40%. What type of top would you recommend? Thank you for the help!

Hit reply to this post after you've read the care sheets tomorrow. All of these questions are answered there. If you need more clarification, I'm happy to help.

 

[Haags21]

I ended up not waiting until tomorrow to read all the stuff you posted. Please forgive me if I ask a question that was answered in the links you provided, it was a lot to absorb. Few questions. I don't remember reading what the top limits were for temps. Whats too hot for both the "cooler" side and the "basking" side? You mentioned not to use the infrared light at night. What do I use to keep it warm at night? I saw your recommendations for substrate on one of the links. Is there a particular favorite you like for sulcatas? I currently use Lugarti's Natural Reptile Bedding. Is this decent substrate? If wanted to use some type of soil is fox farm a suitable option? Also I'm trying to grow some terrarium grass in his enclosure to munch on, is that a good idea? Thank you for all the help. I'm just trying to make sure I do things correctly and provide the best atmosphere I can.

 

[Jimb]

I ended up not waiting until tomorrow to read all the stuff you posted. Please forgive me if I ask a question that was answered in the links you provided, it was a lot to absorb. Few questions. I don't remember reading what the top limits were for temps. Whats too hot for both the "cooler" side and the "basking" side? You mentioned not to use the infrared light at night. What do I use to keep it warm at night? I saw your recommendations for substrate on one of the links. Is there a particular favorite you like for sulcatas? I currently use Lugarti's Natural Reptile Bedding. Is this decent substrate? If wanted to use some type of soil is fox farm a suitable option? Also I'm trying to grow some terrarium grass in his enclosure to munch on, is that a good idea? Thank you for all the help. I'm just trying to make sure I do things correctly and provide the best atmosphere I can.

I use Coir for 80% of my Maximus' enclosure. He has both a Hot-side & a Cool-side hide. I use a Heat Projector from http://www.reptileuv.com/shop/ however they won't have any for another 3 or 4 weeks I guess. I need a couple. I like them better than the CHE units. It's so warm and humid in his enclosure that I've not any luck growing any "Grazing" mixtures and I haven't been able to raise any Pill Bugs either.
Hope that helps a little, that's just how my set-up is and it's certainly not perfect. Maximus is now 10 months old.

 

[Yvonne G]

Misting doesn't really do anything to add humidity to an enclosure. You have to actually get the substrate wet. I pour water over it then mix it up with my hand. The top layer quickly dries out, but it stays moist underneath.

 

[Tom]

I ended up not waiting until tomorrow to read all the stuff you posted. Please forgive me if I ask a question that was answered in the links you provided, it was a lot to absorb. Few questions. I don't remember reading what the top limits were for temps. Whats too hot for both the "cooler" side and the "basking" side? You mentioned not to use the infrared light at night. What do I use to keep it warm at night? I saw your recommendations for substrate on one of the links. Is there a particular favorite you like for sulcatas? I currently use Lugarti's Natural Reptile Bedding. Is this decent substrate? If wanted to use some type of soil is fox farm a suitable option? Also I'm trying to grow some terrarium grass in his enclosure to munch on, is that a good idea? Thank you for all the help. I'm just trying to make sure I do things correctly and provide the best atmosphere I can.

I wouldn't have waited until morning either.

Your questions:
1a. I let overall ambient in my closed chamber creep into the low 90's in summertime and I don't let it drop below 80 in winter. If things start creeping into the high 90's, you'd need to take some action.
1b. I don't like basking areas to be much over 100. Incandescent bulbs are necessary for them to thermoregulate and warm up, but they are also very desiccating to the carapace. Sort of a "necessary evil" until I find a better solution. 95-100 works best in my experience.
2. Night heat is best maintained with the use of a ceramic heating element or a radiant heat panel AND a thermostat. I like these thermostats:
https://www.hydrofarm.com/p/MTPRTC
http://www.lllreptile.com/products/13883-zilla-1000-watt-temperature-controller
3. Fine grade orchid bark works best and its cheap if you can find it in bulk at a local nursery. Coco coir would be a distant second, but I find it too messy for little sulcatas.
4. About the Lugarti bedding: I've never heard of this so I looked it up. They don't tell you what it is, but it looks like sand and soil. I would say no to both of those. Sand is an impaction risk and possible skin and eye irritant for tortoises, and I don't like soil because its messy/muddy and you can't know what blend of composted stuff its made of.
5. Foxfarm: Same thing. I don't recommend soil. Orchid bark works best. I've tried everything there is over many years and orchid bark simply causes the least amount of problems while performing perfectly for what a baby sulcata needs.
6. I don't grow things in their enclosures because they simply eat or trample it before it has a chance to get going. It is not harmful, but you will see in time that it doesn't usually work. Some people grow multiple trays of food and sink one tray at a time into the substrate so the tortoise can munch on it. Then rotate through your trays as needed. The Fox Farm soil would probably be good for this purpose.

Great questions. I hope you have more.

 

[Haags21]

Thank you for all the information. I'm getting to work on making the changes this weekend. I also want to put together a outside area for him to spend time. I saw the pictures of your outside closures on one of your links. I know you said to stay away for "soil" for the closure but whats your thoughts on filling the outside enclosure with soil and growing his acceptable food inside. My plan (unless you thinks its a bad idea) was to make one your outside enclosures but make it double as tortoise garden. I'll include a hide, shaded area and water dish. Would that be acceptable. Once again thank you for all the information.

 

[Haags21]

This might be a dumb question but is repti bark the same as orchid bark?

 

[Tom]

This might be a dumb question but is repti bark the same as orchid bark?

Not dumb at all. Yes. Its the same stuff.

What I find dumb is paying the pet store price instead of getting a giant bag for half the price at a garden center.

 

[cmacusa3]

Not dumb at all. Yes. Its the same stuff.

What I find dumb is paying the pet store price instead of getting a giant bag for half the price at a garden center.

I have looked at no less than 10 garden centers here and can't find it.

 

[JoesMum]

I have looked at no less than 10 garden centers here and can't find it.

Could you order it online for delivery?

 

[cmacusa3]

Could you order it online for delivery?

Shipping was high for it, by the time I figured it up reptibark on Amazon prime was cheaper

 

[Tom]

...but whats your thoughts on filling the outside enclosure with soil and growing his acceptable food inside. My plan (unless you thinks its a bad idea) was to make one your outside enclosures but make it double as tortoise garden. I'll include a hide, shaded area and water dish. Would that be acceptable. Once again thank you for all the information.

Great idea. What I do in that case is mix the native soil with some acceptable amendment. Just make sure there is no perlite of vermiculite. I don't mind "guano" and other natural fertilizers, but do use caution. Also, you better make two enclosures, or more. It will take 4-6 weeks for your seedlings to spurt up and get going. If you put the tortoise in there when those little sprouts pop up he will mow them down before they get a chance to even take root.

 

[Tom]

I have looked at no less than 10 garden centers here and can't find it.

That's dumb.


Kidding! Just kidding…

They should be able to order it for you. I like this one:


You can probably find it on Amazon or something like that too...

 

[cmacusa3]

That's dumb.


Kidding! Just kidding…

They should be able to order it for you. I like this one:
View attachment 186508

You can probably find it on Amazon or something like that too...

I will give it a look

 

[Tom]

http://www.ebstone.org/products/greenall
http://www.armstronggarden.com/micro-bark.html
https://estore.sparetimesupply.com/products/greenall-micro-bark--br-2-cf-75.html