Substrate confusion??

[Amanda81]

Again during my quest to educated self I have ran into conflicting data. I am setting up an enclosure for a sulcata hatchling. Should I use a chemical free/organic topsoil or the "Eco earth" stuff that comes in the solid bricks and u wet and let dry? One article says not to let substrate b damp and another says it all should b damp and then another says only the substrate in the hide shod b damp. Please help!!
1. Which substrate would b best?
2. How should I prepare it in the enclosure?

 

[WillTort2]

If you wish to subscribe to the well tested humid environment for hatchlings I would suggest reading and following "Tom's" guidelines on raising young Sulcatas.

 

[dannel]

If you wish to subscribe to the well tested humid environment for hatchlings I would suggest reading and following "Tom's" guidelines on raising young Sulcatas.

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/

 

[Tom]

I don't like either of those for hatchling sulcatas. I prefer fine grade orchid bark and I keep it all damp, but more damp in the hides. With a 3-4 inch layer of orchid bark, I can keep the top layer relatively dry, while the bottom layers stay damp and help with humidity in a closed chamber. I find coir (Eco Earth) too messy for sulcatas, but its my favorite for russian babies that dig into it.

I don't like "topsoil" because it can be made of almost anything and have almost anything in it. It is also very messy like the coir.

You can find 2.0 cubic foot bags of fine grade O. bark at the hardware store for about $5.

 

[Trevor Ostrander]

Tom, I have looked everywhere and can not find orchid bark anywhere close to that size. Most places have a very small bag for $10 or more. Where are you getting orchid bark? I am in upstate ny. Can someone help?

 

[Amanda81]

That's probably the NY price. The same small bag is 8 something here in Tennessee.

 

[Tom]

They might be calling it something else. They sell it at my Lowes under the name "Pathway Bark". You might have to slice open some bags and check inside to get the right stuff. It comes in big 2.0 cubic foot bags.

 

[Trevor Ostrander]

Thanks Tom. I went to Lowes last night and they had pine bark that looked like it didn't have any color added but I couldn't find anywhere on the bag if it had dyes or pesticides etc. I will have to keep looking.

 

[Yvonne G]

Don't buy pine bark. What you want is fir bark. And for baby tortoises you want the small or fine grade, not large chunks.

 

[Trevor Ostrander]

Ok I'll keep looking. It isn't looking good around my area. I have been using coco coir that I order on amazon. Would like to get some orchid bark though

 

[Amanda81]

I don't like either of those for hatchling sulcatas. I prefer fine grade orchid bark and I keep it all damp, but more damp in the hides. With a 3-4 inch layer of orchid bark, I can keep the top layer relatively dry, while the bottom layers stay damp and help with humidity in a closed chamber. I find coir (Eco Earth) too messy for sulcatas, but its my favorite for russian babies that dig into it.

I don't like "topsoil" because it can be made of almost anything and have almost anything in it. It is also very messy like the coir.

You can find 2.0 cubic foot bags of fine grade O. bark at the hardware store for about $5.

I read somewhere that the fir bark, orchid bark molds real easy and that it's damaging to hatchlings leg growth, is mold a problem? Will it damage their legs?

 

[Yvonne G]

I have used orchid bark for years and years. I keep it fairly wet. It doesn't sour or turn moldy. The only time I see mold is when I don't clean up the left over food very well. And then its the food that molds, not the substrate.

 

[Tom]

I've had the exact same experience as Yvonne. I have raised literally hundreds of brand new hatchlings, as well as juveniles and adults on it since 2008, and never had a single problem with mold or leg issues. I have, or have had, stars, CDTs, both types of leopards, sulcatas and russians on it with zero issues.

 

[Amanda81]

I have used orchid bark for years and years. I keep it fairly wet. It doesn't sour or turn moldy. The only time I see mold is when I don't clean up the left over food very well. And then its the food that molds, not the substrate.

Well me and the quads have us a routine. Their lights come on at 5a, at 5:30, they go in Their now once a day bath while I poop scoop their enclosure, clean and fill their food Nd water dishes, and spray the substrate down with warm water. By then their 20 minutes are up and they go back in and straight to their food dishes. While I poop scoop I also "rake" up and food pieces they have drug all over the previous day. I keep it pretty clean and I was really kinda wanting to switch out the Eco earth for the bark due to the Eco earth is a real mess. That stuff is absolutely everywhere but I wanted to make sure it wasn't going to b a health concern.

 

[Amanda81]

I've had the exact same experience as Yvonne. I have raised literally hundreds of brand new hatchlings, as well as juveniles and adults on it since 2008, and never had a single problem with mold or leg issues. I have, or have had, stars, CDTs, both types of leopards, sulcatas and russians on it with zero issues.

Ok great!! The Eco earth is as good as gone. I am going to switch it out. Now my next question. I keep the Eco earth pretty wet. I spray it daily and sometimes I even dump warm water all over it (while the quads are in their bath). Do I want to keep the bark just as wet?

 

[Tom]

I keep my orchid bark pretty damp. Just depends on the enclosure, but there is no harm in spraying it and dumping water on it as much as you like.

Coir will be less messy if you hand pack it down. I prefer it for young testudo species or CDT hatchlings, but I prefer orchid bark for sulcata and leopard hatchlings. I think you will soon see why. Its good that you will have tried both and you can share your thoughts on it with us. I'd like to hear which one you prefer and why, after you've had some time with the new stuff.

 

[Amanda81]

I keep my orchid bark pretty damp. Just depends on the enclosure, but there is no harm in spraying it and dumping water on it as much as you like.

Coir will be less messy if you hand pack it down. I prefer it for young testudo species or CDT hatchlings, but I prefer orchid bark for sulcata and leopard hatchlings. I think you will soon see why. Its good that you will have tried both and you can share your thoughts on it with us. I'd like to hear which one you prefer and why, after you've had some time with the new stuff.

Another question, kinda off the substrate issue, temps, I have thermometers and hygrometers in like 4 different aces in enclosure, they all read something different, which in return worries me. Should I just have one placed in a certain location or should I have multiple ones and if so where should they be placed? I am getting ready to order new ones and didn't know if I needed just one really good one or maybe a wireless one with multiple remotes I can place different places. (I have a temp gun too)

 

[Amanda81]

Can u mix the sphagnum moss with the fir bark? Or put the moss on top of it?

 

[Tom]

Another question, kinda off the substrate issue, temps, I have thermometers and hygrometers in like 4 different aces in enclosure, they all read something different, which in return worries me. Should I just have one placed in a certain location or should I have multiple ones and if so where should they be placed? I am getting ready to order new ones and didn't know if I needed just one really good one or maybe a wireless one with multiple remotes I can place different places. (I have a temp gun too)

There should be different temps in different parts of the enclosure. That is how they thermoregulate. One remote that you move around is enough. The temp gun will help too.

 

[Tom]

Can u mix the sphagnum moss with the fir bark? Or put the moss on top of it?

You can, but why? The orchid bark works just fine all by itself. My sulcatas sometimes tried to eat the moss, so I just skip it.