Stop Sea Turtle Farming!
- Thread starter cheloniac
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OMG, thank you so much for sharing this. My next vacation was to this exact spot. I too wanted to hold a sea turtle. I had no idea this is what the place was all about. A few members have gone there and shared great pics. They will be devastated. I am so glad you shared this. Again thank you so much. I hope it gets stopped. BTW, I signed.
wellington said:
You're very welcome! I've been posting this everywhere I can. I can't believe such a horrific thing is taking place. I made the mistake of looking at the photos and I've been crying ever since.
Sad. This is why I go every year to costa rica and help an actual preserve do REAL conservation of sea turtles and not touristic money making attractions.
Very admirable of you, Kelly! 
I currently live in the middle of NC, but my husband and I plan to move to the coast (preferably Holden Beach, NC) in the future so we can do more for sea turtle conservation regularly. It's been my lifelong goal.
I currently live in the middle of NC, but my husband and I plan to move to the coast (preferably Holden Beach, NC) in the future so we can do more for sea turtle conservation regularly. It's been my lifelong goal.
Well I just cant get enough of it. Last year I saw leatherback (as usual) helped with over 4000 eggs in just one week get moved from the beach to a secure hatchery site, 200 or so Olive ridley eggs, and 600 green sea turtles. Its breath taking seeing an adult female leatherback. They dwarf aldabras. Last weekend I also found out where my families beach house was on gilcrest island(1 hour east of galveston) they have been getting kemp ridley sea turtles nesting there. I didnt see any females but found some nests and helped TXPW stake them off. I was excited. i have been going down there for 20 years and never knew they laid on those beaches. I will look up a documentary I watched a few weeks ago on cuba. There is a man there all by himself that gets eggs and hatches sea turtles and releases them. he lets people release them for 1 dollar so they get to hold it. But that is the way it needs to be, not like that caymen island crap. Thats just sick.
I just discovered that sea turtles lay on our beaches here on the ALabama gulf coast as well. There's a organization called Share the Beach, and I plan to inform our herp society about it next spring when the season for females to start laying begins again. They allow volunteers to "adopt a mile" and all that, walking stretches to monitor tracks and watch for females coming ashore, as well as look for babies during the hatch season.
I'll be the Devils Advocate here......
I see alot of spin and very little substance........I also see pictures of Turtles without context.......
The problem lies with this - You will NEVER get Countries to stop the slaughter of Sea Turtles........NEVER.......The are part of the Island cultures throughout the world, and provide food and revenue for some very poor nations.......You're not going to stop this, so you either have two choices.......
1 - Let those Countries set up farms and make harvest sustainable
OR
2 - Let those Countries harvest these animals into extinction
Which one would you advocate? It's funny though, to think how many people that have signed the petition have actually been to these nations and have seen what happens......I would say the vast majority have NOT, but love to play an Environmental Keyboard Warrior but really have no idea what they are supporting.....
I see alot of spin and very little substance........I also see pictures of Turtles without context.......
The problem lies with this - You will NEVER get Countries to stop the slaughter of Sea Turtles........NEVER.......The are part of the Island cultures throughout the world, and provide food and revenue for some very poor nations.......You're not going to stop this, so you either have two choices.......
1 - Let those Countries set up farms and make harvest sustainable
OR
2 - Let those Countries harvest these animals into extinction
Which one would you advocate? It's funny though, to think how many people that have signed the petition have actually been to these nations and have seen what happens......I would say the vast majority have NOT, but love to play an Environmental Keyboard Warrior but really have no idea what they are supporting.....
Looks like the typical animal rightist propaganda. Except its not nearly as bad as the stuff they usually try to show. I'd have to see it for myself before I could decide if it was good or bad. I bet the facility has its own video that portrays the place as heaven on earth for sea turtles. I'm quite certain that the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
Imagine this same animal rights group trying to ban your pet tortoise. They would explain how its cruel to keep them cooped in your tiny backyard when they would walk miles in the wild. They'd find someone with a pyramided tortoise and explain how the horrible cruelty of captivity made them look this way, while showing a smoother one in the wild for comparison. They might show one with an accidental injury or something while the other 10 in your yard are fine. They might show your russian female with a mild but bleeding bite wound from their normal springtime breeding rituals and make horrid claims of over crowding and unnatural conditions. They might film your herd all running to the food tray, take some close up shots, and try to demonstrate how horribly miserable and overcrowded your poor russian tortoise herd is. Then they would make the case that no tortoise should be kept in such horrible conditions and that you should be stopped from the horrible practice of backyard tortoise farming... You get the point?
I see nothing in the video or text that convinces me of horrible cruelty to the point where the facility needs to be shut down.
Imagine this same animal rights group trying to ban your pet tortoise. They would explain how its cruel to keep them cooped in your tiny backyard when they would walk miles in the wild. They'd find someone with a pyramided tortoise and explain how the horrible cruelty of captivity made them look this way, while showing a smoother one in the wild for comparison. They might show one with an accidental injury or something while the other 10 in your yard are fine. They might show your russian female with a mild but bleeding bite wound from their normal springtime breeding rituals and make horrid claims of over crowding and unnatural conditions. They might film your herd all running to the food tray, take some close up shots, and try to demonstrate how horribly miserable and overcrowded your poor russian tortoise herd is. Then they would make the case that no tortoise should be kept in such horrible conditions and that you should be stopped from the horrible practice of backyard tortoise farming... You get the point?
I see nothing in the video or text that convinces me of horrible cruelty to the point where the facility needs to be shut down.
I just didn't sign the petition because I don't believe petitions change anything anyway!
And I also have made a personal goal as of late to focus my conservation efforts on species native to my own country before I start rallying about things I have yet to witness with my own two eyes in another country I've never been to...for many reason, including those described by Tom and Eric. Good points, guys.
And I also have made a personal goal as of late to focus my conservation efforts on species native to my own country before I start rallying about things I have yet to witness with my own two eyes in another country I've never been to...for many reason, including those described by Tom and Eric. Good points, guys.
I have signed the petion and posted on my Facebook. I should get some more signatures
These are all great reasons why I go an physically help where the are doing a good dead. I never know if some hollywood producer filmed these and made them a reality in which is not just. I always donate my help and services rather than money. It never fails to make me feel good. usually they dont even look for money either. I know the turtle place I go in Costa Rica on play hermosa just wants people to help carry eggs the 3 mile walk down the beach because they get very heavy in 5 gallon buckets with sand after a walk like that.
I signed. It is so sad but at least we can try!
Whether or not it changes things is a risk worth taking. I just know we have to try.
cheloniac said:
Call me stupid, but what changes are you trying to make? What exactly is at risk here?
Again, you or this petition is not going to do any good for Turtle Conservation, which is the end goal. This petition is not going to stop the slaughter of Sea Turtle species around the world, which is the end goal. So what exactly did this do again? Oh, yeah thats right, try to stop a facility that is operating well within the law. Educating the public about these animals, and actually doing real conservation work for the species that inhabit the Caymen Islands and surrounding territories in the Caribbean........
Would you also try and stop the Blue Iguana project? Same situation, different animals right?
Sounds like Eco Terroism at its finest.........We the Sheeple! Yay!
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Cheloniac, thank you for sharing this. Please ignore Eric & Tom on this matter. They love to interject inappropriately whenever someone posts anything related to animal rights or welfare. Eric & Tom, this is not a debate, it is a nice person asking for people to sign a petition. We don't jump all over you whenever you start a new thread discussing all the ways you use animals to make a living, so get over it.
shellysmom said:
There is nothing inappropriate about my interjection, and I have absolutely no problem with animal welfare. In fact I am a huge advocate of animal welfare and my donated time here on the forum is just one small example of that. You think I earn any money by answering PMs and helping people take better care of their tortoises?
Pointing out that this might simply be propaganda from a group with an agenda that is COMPLETELY counter to what we do on this forum, is not inappropriate and it is not jumping all over someone. If this is in fact a legitimate facility, doing good work, and overall helping the species involved, it would be a terrible travesty to help contribute to shutting it down because a group with ill intentions made an intentionally sad little internet film about them.
Finally, you are DEAD wrong if you think people don't jump all over me when I post something controversial. Eric, who in this case is also choosing to keep an open mind, is one of the many who frequently opposes my point of view. If you look back at some of my old threads you will see scores of people who have chosen to "jump all over me".
shellysmom said:
Shellysmom, there are a few things I would like to address with your post there:
Since when is civilized and intelligent opinion about a particular issue considered "interjecting inappropriately?" This is a forum where EVERYONE is allowed to post and offer their advice, opinions, etc. There is no rule that says anyone who disagrees with the OP is not allowed to post. It's fine to voice your own conflicting opinion on someone's thread, but when someone disagrees with YOU or the OP...well (hrmmph!) that simply cannot be allowed! [/sarcasm].
Secondly, there is a very distinct difference between animal rights and animal welfare. Like Tom and Eric, I happen to take the topic very seriously. Just for the record, I'm pretty sure everyone on this board is concerned with animal welfare.
Perhaps not a debate, but members are still allowed to post their opinions one way or another about the subject matter of the thread. If we choose not to sign said petition, we can explain why. And if the thread does progress into a debate, I'm sure the moderators will move it to the appropriate section.
[*sneeze*] Excuse me, I'm allergic to BS. What a load. People jump over Tom and Eric, as well as others all the time about husbandry practices, etc. all the time in the threads their threads. In fact, people have done the same to me in a few of mine as well. We deal with it....but it's a 2-way street.
We have the right to "jump over" others' threads, too. Not that we're trying to be vindictive but it certainly isn't fair that we should be just stand back and be silent when we have something to say, while anyone can post and argue and debate on our threads. Wouldn't you agree?Regarding the petition....
Not to rehash what was already said about propaganda and whatnot (which is likely dead-on), my issue with petitions in general is their futility and and ineffectiveness. Let's say, this WAS for a legitimate cause...all that petition does is just an online list of people who watched the video and felt compelled and committed enough to right-click their mouse a few times and type in their name. Wow...big risk. Big stand. I hope everyone who signed an online petition is very proud of themselves for the hard work they did by TYPING THEIR NAME.
So the petition gets enough signatures (1000? 50k? A million?)...then what happens next? Someone prints it out and flies down to the Cayman Islands to the Sea Turtle Farm, shows it to the head honchos there and says "Hey, a bunch of turtle lovers all around the world are really upset about what you're doing here." What on earth do you think is going to happen? LOL
I'm sorry if I step on some toes here, but all these petitions do is make lazy people feel like they actually accomplished something. Petitions rarely accomplish anything, especially online ones. Numbers can be skewed, a user can sign multiple times, etc.
If you REALLY want to help out and contribute to any form of turtle or tortoise conservation, get off the sofa, away from your computer and actually get involved with some organization. Do some research on your own. But please do not delude yourself into thinking by signing an online petition, you made a difference.
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*sigh* When I said WE I meant specifically cheloniac and myself. We have both been jumped on by Tom & Eric for posting simple requests about helping turtles and tortoises in trouble. This topic of animal rights should be "debatable" in that portion of the forum only. And, I'm sure the moderators feel that way as well, because when Tom repeatedly expressed his extreme dislike for animal rights organizations on my thread about helping sulcatas at a roadside zoo, he was told to stop, take it to the debatable section of the forum, and any further comments not related directly to the OP would be deleted. So, again, the OP here is a simple request for people to help animals. It is absolutely not appropriate for people to ambush this poor person with their never ending conspiracy theories about the true agenda of animal rights organizations. And, IMO, it is ALSO not appropriate for people to ambush Tom when he posts simple information that some people find controversial. That's why there's a DEBATABLE section on the forum. So both sides can willfully engage in the discussion. Ambushing is extremely rude, especially when it contains obvious insults to the person posting. That is NOT why people post things like this, so try to be a little nicer. Is it really that hard to do?
I see the point you are making Erika. The point I am making is that it is not "nice" to attempt to destroy someone's livelihood and shut down their facility based on flimsy accusations from an extremist group with an obvious ulterior motive and a history of dishonesty.
I can't sit by silently and watch that happen in the name of "niceness". I won't. I wouldn't sit by and watch someone do it to YOU either. If some animal rights group was posting videos about the horrible treatment of the tortoises in your back yard or in the horrible tiny indoor enclosures you use, I would argue against them, and in your favor too.
If this facility is truly abusing animals or not caring for them properly, I will be first in line to try to shut them down. I see no evidence of that posted here. Really not even a hint of it. They show a turtle with a neck injury. How do you know that turtle wasn't injured in some shrimp trawler's net, and this facility is treating the wound and giving it a safe place to recover? Its just a picture. We have no idea what the real story behind it is. Of course the animal rightist is going to paint a worse case scenario picture in order to stimulate people's emotions and gain money and favor for their "cause".
I can't sit by silently and watch that happen in the name of "niceness". I won't. I wouldn't sit by and watch someone do it to YOU either. If some animal rights group was posting videos about the horrible treatment of the tortoises in your back yard or in the horrible tiny indoor enclosures you use, I would argue against them, and in your favor too.
If this facility is truly abusing animals or not caring for them properly, I will be first in line to try to shut them down. I see no evidence of that posted here. Really not even a hint of it. They show a turtle with a neck injury. How do you know that turtle wasn't injured in some shrimp trawler's net, and this facility is treating the wound and giving it a safe place to recover? Its just a picture. We have no idea what the real story behind it is. Of course the animal rightist is going to paint a worse case scenario picture in order to stimulate people's emotions and gain money and favor for their "cause".
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