Time to tackle this sore spot. I realize I should just let it lie, but feel I need to clear my chest one last time.
I'm starting to think a certain buddy of mine has taken on a crusade against CFL UVB lamps just to goad me. Maybe I'm wrong and he really has a personal Vendetta against these things and he's being just as stubborn as an honery old sully in his quest to eradicate them from the face of the earth. Something tells me he does have a stubborn streak in him a mile wide.
I wouldn't care, except I hate to see people waste money and throw away a perfectly good lamp, because one of our many experts on here told them to.
Yes, my experience is limited. Yes I do not yet own a UV meter like I honestly feel every responsible tortoise owner should. My only excuse is the usual weak one. I don't have the money right now. Things are tight in our home, and will be for the next few months, if we even manage to hold on to our home.
What I can say from experience is this. I HAVE successfully used both a linear UVB lamp and a Compact Fluorescent UVB lamp to pull two red footed tortoises out of onset MBD. I hate to toot my own horn, but after reading so many stories of sorrow, so many tortoises fading away to death after entering depressive states, I feel truly lucky and blessed to have done it. Now maybe karma will kick me in the *** and take Adrienne or Rocky from me as a price for my pride, but I pray that doesn't pass. I'm fairly confident in Rocky's health at this point, but don't truly feel completely out of the woods with Adrienne yet.
First assumption I'm making that could be in error is that both animals were suffering from onset MBD. In all the research I've done, reading old thread after old thread, some things that Danny had said made the connection in my mind. Maybe I misread, and Danny was reacting to other cues, but I came to connect depressed inactive states in tortoises with MBD. Apparently as MBD, or possibly other nutrient defficiency disorders set in, movement becomes physically painful for tortoises. It hurts to move, so they stop moving, further compounding the problem, as they may then refuse to self regulate their temperature and UVB needs. Too low temps then lead to poor digestion, which further leads to poor nutrition. Lack of exercise is also likely critical to over all tortoise health and well being.
With Rocky all I had was an 18 inch UVB 10 lamp that came with her. For at least 3 months prior to her coming to live with us she received no UVB. The lens had never been removed by the previous owner. All rocky wanted to do was sit in her hide. I rarely supplemented D3 in her diet, as I was scared of overdosing. I did however feed her a little Natural Balance pea and duck cat food weekly (which does contain D3) and some mushrooms regularily. Overtime, as she learned to bask (I placed the UV lamp next to her halogen heat lamp) her activity level picked up. She went through a couple cuddle bones, munching them down ravenously, something that has slowed down now, she just nibbles occasionally.
Adrienne's turn around has been slower, possibly because she is also smaller. She has received "better" care, which I also wonder if I'm missing something I accidently got right with Rocky. She is however doing far better than she was, and has started to become active. She is now wandering about her enclosure at times and eating well.
Now to the point of all this.
I USED A ZOO MED 5.0 CFL FOR ADRIENNE.
yes, although to be fair its not a "spiral" it is a CFL, and I REALLY LIKE IT. It SEEMS to have given her enough UVB to start making a recovery and HAS NOT BLINDED HER.
The old CFLs were very dim apparently, and produced overly high levels of UVC and UVB radiation, AND came with inadequate instructions. This led to many owners installing them incorrectly and harming their reptiles.
My Zoo Med 5.0 CFL came with clear adequate instructions. It produces a bright white, FULL SPECTRUM light that is painful to look at, and I consider this a GOOD THING. The old dim lamps are terrible things, because it does not hurt to look at them. Since they are dim the pupil also dilates to a wide open position allowing excessive UVB in. This new lamp does NOT do that.
Now the argument goes, why take the risk, MVBs are better right? Maybe, maybe not. There is some research that shows, and I have seen this behavior in Rocky, that reptiles can self regulate their UVB needs just like they regulate their heat needs. If heat and UVB are combined in one, it may not be possible for an animal to get enough of one without getting too much of the other. They can wind up cooking themselves just to satisfy their UVB needs.
Most of their information is down, and supposedly will be back up soon, but UVGuide is now suggesting that animals be provided with a UV gradient, just like a heat gradient. I am presently trying to establish a high UV spot with a high temp, and a High UV spot, with a lower temp, and also a high heat spot with low UV.
As to no MVB ever causing problems....
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/westronrecallspring2010.htm
Now maybe I just had dumb luck, and my torts should be dead and/ or blind, and I would feel bad as all hell if a bunch of folks started using CFLs now, and had their animals harmed.
BUT THE FACT IS
I used both a linear and a CFL UVB lamp, got away with it, and had good results. No matter what source of UVB we use, we need to watch our animals, and watch for signs of harm. If ever any animal starts showing eye problems, immediately pull all lamps and see if they recover.
I realize I may never be able to reach you guys, and frankly after this I'll likely give up. Just think about it a minute. If you ate an apple once, and it had a worm, would you never eat another? I've bit that worm, and yes it was gross, but I sure love apples.
I'm starting to think a certain buddy of mine has taken on a crusade against CFL UVB lamps just to goad me. Maybe I'm wrong and he really has a personal Vendetta against these things and he's being just as stubborn as an honery old sully in his quest to eradicate them from the face of the earth. Something tells me he does have a stubborn streak in him a mile wide.
I wouldn't care, except I hate to see people waste money and throw away a perfectly good lamp, because one of our many experts on here told them to.
Yes, my experience is limited. Yes I do not yet own a UV meter like I honestly feel every responsible tortoise owner should. My only excuse is the usual weak one. I don't have the money right now. Things are tight in our home, and will be for the next few months, if we even manage to hold on to our home.
What I can say from experience is this. I HAVE successfully used both a linear UVB lamp and a Compact Fluorescent UVB lamp to pull two red footed tortoises out of onset MBD. I hate to toot my own horn, but after reading so many stories of sorrow, so many tortoises fading away to death after entering depressive states, I feel truly lucky and blessed to have done it. Now maybe karma will kick me in the *** and take Adrienne or Rocky from me as a price for my pride, but I pray that doesn't pass. I'm fairly confident in Rocky's health at this point, but don't truly feel completely out of the woods with Adrienne yet.
First assumption I'm making that could be in error is that both animals were suffering from onset MBD. In all the research I've done, reading old thread after old thread, some things that Danny had said made the connection in my mind. Maybe I misread, and Danny was reacting to other cues, but I came to connect depressed inactive states in tortoises with MBD. Apparently as MBD, or possibly other nutrient defficiency disorders set in, movement becomes physically painful for tortoises. It hurts to move, so they stop moving, further compounding the problem, as they may then refuse to self regulate their temperature and UVB needs. Too low temps then lead to poor digestion, which further leads to poor nutrition. Lack of exercise is also likely critical to over all tortoise health and well being.
With Rocky all I had was an 18 inch UVB 10 lamp that came with her. For at least 3 months prior to her coming to live with us she received no UVB. The lens had never been removed by the previous owner. All rocky wanted to do was sit in her hide. I rarely supplemented D3 in her diet, as I was scared of overdosing. I did however feed her a little Natural Balance pea and duck cat food weekly (which does contain D3) and some mushrooms regularily. Overtime, as she learned to bask (I placed the UV lamp next to her halogen heat lamp) her activity level picked up. She went through a couple cuddle bones, munching them down ravenously, something that has slowed down now, she just nibbles occasionally.
Adrienne's turn around has been slower, possibly because she is also smaller. She has received "better" care, which I also wonder if I'm missing something I accidently got right with Rocky. She is however doing far better than she was, and has started to become active. She is now wandering about her enclosure at times and eating well.
Now to the point of all this.
I USED A ZOO MED 5.0 CFL FOR ADRIENNE.
yes, although to be fair its not a "spiral" it is a CFL, and I REALLY LIKE IT. It SEEMS to have given her enough UVB to start making a recovery and HAS NOT BLINDED HER.
The old CFLs were very dim apparently, and produced overly high levels of UVC and UVB radiation, AND came with inadequate instructions. This led to many owners installing them incorrectly and harming their reptiles.
My Zoo Med 5.0 CFL came with clear adequate instructions. It produces a bright white, FULL SPECTRUM light that is painful to look at, and I consider this a GOOD THING. The old dim lamps are terrible things, because it does not hurt to look at them. Since they are dim the pupil also dilates to a wide open position allowing excessive UVB in. This new lamp does NOT do that.
Now the argument goes, why take the risk, MVBs are better right? Maybe, maybe not. There is some research that shows, and I have seen this behavior in Rocky, that reptiles can self regulate their UVB needs just like they regulate their heat needs. If heat and UVB are combined in one, it may not be possible for an animal to get enough of one without getting too much of the other. They can wind up cooking themselves just to satisfy their UVB needs.
Most of their information is down, and supposedly will be back up soon, but UVGuide is now suggesting that animals be provided with a UV gradient, just like a heat gradient. I am presently trying to establish a high UV spot with a high temp, and a High UV spot, with a lower temp, and also a high heat spot with low UV.
As to no MVB ever causing problems....
http://www.uvguide.co.uk/westronrecallspring2010.htm
Now maybe I just had dumb luck, and my torts should be dead and/ or blind, and I would feel bad as all hell if a bunch of folks started using CFLs now, and had their animals harmed.
BUT THE FACT IS
I used both a linear and a CFL UVB lamp, got away with it, and had good results. No matter what source of UVB we use, we need to watch our animals, and watch for signs of harm. If ever any animal starts showing eye problems, immediately pull all lamps and see if they recover.
I realize I may never be able to reach you guys, and frankly after this I'll likely give up. Just think about it a minute. If you ate an apple once, and it had a worm, would you never eat another? I've bit that worm, and yes it was gross, but I sure love apples.