Specific Local Hibernations

[Koen]

Hi Guys,

I have a question regarding hibernation if Sicily local Western Hermans specifically from Etna.

I keep Puglia's and Vars whom remain permanently outside and they are able to sleep for 4 months without any problems. They sleep outside in their insulated greenhouse but not sure what to do with the Etna's which i am receiving in spring next year.

I was looking into Etna's climate and it remains a bit warmer than it does in the South of France and Apulia so I was thinking of hibernating them 3 months instead of 4.

I have asked the breeder who lives in the south of Italy as well and he lets them sleep outside for about 2 months. They do wake up once in a while over there on a sunny winter day but since I reside in Belgium and winters are much colder here I am just wondering if some of you have experience hibernating this locals in colder climates.

I do not want to start a topic whether you should hibernate a Western or not - just looking for specific info regarding hibernation with this specific local.

Thanks!

Koen

 

[JoesMum]

This sounds like one for @HermanniChris

 

[Koen]

Just realised it can get quite cold in Mount Etna with 4 months of possible snowfall but still like to hear any additional experiences

Thanks

 

[JoesMum]

Just realised it can get quite cold in Mount Etna with 4 months of possible snowfall but still like to hear any additional experiences

Thanks

Mount Etna is pretty high. That said, the length of hibernation depends very much on the weight of the tortoise and temperatures where you are. A larger tortoise can safely hibernate for longer.

My Greek is Algerian... I live in the UK. I cannot possible replicate the winter conditions over there. Hibernation in over 40 years with us has varied with what's happening here. If we have a long winter, he is down longer and a short winter means the opposite.

Winter conditions vary from year to year in the wild too. They don't magically hibernate for exactly 3 or 4 months; a late cold snap will keep them asleep... an early spring will have them up and looking for food.

Hibernation dates have certainly drifted gradually from a mid October start to an early December start over the years here as climate change has meant our winter has changed. Joe has woken any time from mid February to mid April!

 

[HermanniChris]

All western Hermann’s can Brumate for extended periods regardless of where they derive from. The only forms a bit more sensitive are the balearic forms in my experience but even they handle brumation quite well. As for Etna, those from higher up the volcanic area experience very cold winters. My Etna hermanni have no issues with cold and since they are so black, they absorb the sun extremely quickly once it’s warming up again. All my other Sicilian locales including Madonie, Ragusa and Nebrodi also Handle brumation just fine.

I leave every single locality group outdoors here in southern coastal NJ until sometime in late December. By then they are usually dormant. I then remove them to finish out brumation in the crawl space under the house. There, it will fluctuate between 56 and 38F but may sometimes warm to the low 60s on occasion which perfectly normal for this species. The only forms that may be woken up early are the Balearic ones (Mallorca and Minorca).

Hope this helps.

 

[Koen]

Thanks to both Chris and JoesMum - makes perfect sense and helps a lot.

@HermanniChris - What do you do when the crawl space heats up to 60s during hibernation? I assume this can happen amidst brumation or usually at the end?

I tend to leave my torts be when they wake up during their brumation on a cold winter day - just check their weights and if they haven't lost more than 10% of their 'brumation starting weight' I let them be. I assume this is the right way? I do wake my THH up after 4 months though which is earlier than my THB whom can sleep upto 5,5 months without any issues experienced.

Here some pics of the Etna's. Expecting 1.2 - Gular Mustache present.

 

[HermanniChris]

I do nothing because it’s perfectly natural for fluctuating temps to bring them to a semi-active State. I also try not to handle much at all and barely check weights. I may weigh them a total of 3-4 times during the entire duration. Our THB Brumate outdoors and sleep from November until March or April depending on the year. They will wake up briefly on warm days in February at times. The THH all sleep about the same amount of time regardless of locale.

Those Etna look great and classic for the form.
This is a shot of one of our pairs and you can see much more on hermannihaven.com

 

[Koen]

Cool! Then I know I am doing the right thing.

Thanks Chris! Sort of addicted to your website so they look familiar

Happy both you and Laurens consider the pictures as classic for the form. Although you never know 100% their exact local I do feel comfortable buying them.

1 more question I know some locals like Apulia's and Vars, the same haplotype occurs. Is this the case for Sicilian locals and the Etna in perticular?

Thanks!

Koen

 

[HermanniChris]

Well I’m glad to hear you enjoy the site [emoji4]
Yes the same haplotype can occur throughout entirely different regions. So, on Sicily they are typically all the same however, research on Etna animals hasn’t been done yet so we aren’t 100% sure on that. In areas like Mallorca, Both H5 and H3 can be found.

 

[Koen]

Thanks Chris - learned a lot.

Also loved the article in Reptiles Magazine. Shared it in our Torts Facebook group as well if you don't mind.

Cheers!

 

[HermanniChris]

Thanks Chris - learned a lot.

Also loved the article in Reptiles Magazine. Shared it in our Torts Facebook group as well if you don't mind.

Cheers!

Thank you and please, share all you like!