Sick Russian Tort

CathyNed

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Hi everyone. Im hoping someone here can help me out. My tort has been off his food and very inactive for about a fortnight (sleeping all the time unless i pick him up).sits under basking lamp 32 degrees all day. In that time he has only eaten twice and thats being handfed. Other than actually putting the food in his mouth he has shown no interest. He has had access to fresh water at all times .He is bathed for about 20mins daily and has been peeing but no poop.

I took him to the vet on Wednesday because i was very worried about his behaviour. He seems to have very little strength in his legs. The vet said he had lost weight. (I had brought him to the vet about a year ago to have his beak filed when it split.vet had his weight on file.) Vet also seemed worried he wasnt tucking in head or legs. He gave me critical care supplement to be mixed with water and syringe fed to help him to put the weight back on.He fed him that day while i was there to show me and i have given it every day since (5days) He also told me to leave torts food dish and food available.

Tort still sleeps under heat lamp constantly and is even inclined to sleep in the water when he is soaking. When i put him back in enclosure he walks slowly towards basking area but doesnt seem to have the strength in back legs to lift his lower carpace off the substrate.

I was waiting for tort to poop as i didnt want to keep pumping critical care into him if nothing was coming out. On second day of treatment tort passed a very solid poop with difficulty while soaking. Also lots of white urate. I thought this may have been the problem.....that he was constipated. After the solid poop came some diahorria same consistancy as critical care he was being syringe fed. He has started to walk a little more particularly when taken out of bath.

At soak time everyday he has peed and there has been white urates but no further poop.

He showed some interest in food today when i tried to hand feed him so i let him eat. When he stopped eating i noticed he was having difficulty and kept opening and closing his mouth. He had a piece of greens stuck to roof of his mouth which he could not dislodge. I waited to see if he could rectify this himself and then thought i should step in as he seemed to be in discomfort. When i opend his mouth, the leafy greens he had eaten all came back up his neck in a lump stuck together with saliva. None of them had actually gone down. Im not sure if they would have gone down if id left him alone. Now i am wary of letting him eat the solids as i dont want him to choke if they are not going down. He has peed every day since in the bath but no further poop. There has been lots of white urates in his baths too. I dont know if its related but he has been showing off his manhood quite a bit when expelling the white substance in the bath and i was unsure if he is having difficulty passing poop. I will contact vet again tomorrow with regards to eating solid foods. Does anyine have any idea what could be wrong?

He is a Russian Horsfield. Ive had him for about 8years. With exception of a split beak he hasnt been sick before but did have difficulty eating when his beak was filed back a year ago. Any ideas what could be wrong or what i should do?
 

CathyNed

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He is in the last couple of days inclined to sleep with his mouth slightly open which i have read is a sign of RI. There is no liquid from nose or apparant eye irritation. His nostrils seem to be clear. Vet didnt mention any signs of an RI but maybe he was more concerned with the weight and food issue first.
 

JoesMum

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What are the 4 important temperatures? Warm end, cool end, overnight minimum and under the basking lamp.

Problems with temperatures are usually the cause of inactivity.

Your basking temperature should be about 35C, so things may be to cool by day for your tort.

Soak your tort for a good 20 minutes in warm water until he recovers
 

CathyNed

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Basking 32ish warm 30 cool 25-28 night 20.
His shell feela toasty under the basking lamp. Shell feels cold in morning until heat lamp goes on. I dont know if he has the strength to move arounf within enclosure. He drags his back legs and shuffles himself around under basking lamp but doesnt ever walk to other end of enclosure. If i lift his hind shell a tiny bit he starts trying to walk. Front legs are strong enough to lift himself up very high but his back legs dont. Its as though his back legs cant take his weight?
 

CathyNed

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What are the 4 important temperatures? Warm end, cool end, overnight minimum and under the basking lamp.

Problems with temperatures are usually the cause of inactivity.

Your basking temperature should be about 35C, so things may be to cool by day for your tort.

Soak your tort for a good 20 minutes in warm water until he recovers

Thanks for reply
Basking 32ish warm 30 cool 25-28 night 20.
His shell feela toasty under the basking lamp. Shell feels cold in morning until heat lamp goes on. I dont know if he has the strength to move arounf within enclosure. He drags his back legs and shuffles himself around under basking lamp but doesnt ever walk to other end of enclosure. If i lift his hind shell a tiny bit he starts trying to walk. Front legs are strong enough to lift himself up very high but his back legs dont. Its as though his back legs cant take his weight?
 

dmmj

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what type of substrate are you using?
 

CathyNed

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Basking 32ish warm 30 cool 25-28 night 20.
His shell feela toasty under the basking lamp. Shell feels cold in morning until heat lamp goes on. I dont know if he has the strength to move arounf within enclosure. He drags his back legs and shuffles himself around under basking lamp but doesnt ever walk to other end of enclosure. If i lift his hind shell a tiny bit he starts trying to walk. Front legs are strong enough to lift himself up very high but his back legs dont. Its as though his back legs cant take his weight?
 

JoesMum

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Increase basking to 35. Soak twice a day for a good 20 minutes each time. Hydration is vital.

Hopefully one of the Russian experts like @Tom is around to offer more advice
 

dmmj

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my main concern is the lack of movement and weakness in the legs. That could be a neurological problem, a Metabolic Bone disorder problem, lack of exercise lots of things that can cause that.
 

CathyNed

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What do you do for UVB? What is his diet like? Do you supplement calcium?

Diet was good when he was eating. Lots of leafy greens, loved dandelions, clover. Use to have a cuttlebone in the enclosure but he kept putting dragging /pushing it into his water dish. Used to use calcium powder but stopped quite a while ago. Vet mixed calcium powder into the critical care mix now that im giving him.

Uvb light coil type. Read that they werent great. Got a tube type now but have not got correct fixture for it in place yet.
 

CathyNed

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my main concern is the lack of movement and weakness in the legs. That could be a neurological problem, a Metabolic Bone disorder problem, lack of exercise lots of things that can cause that.

Front legs seem strong back legs dont. Is there a way to strengthen them without stressing him out too much at the minute while im struggling to get him to eat.
 

dmmj

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Some people have used water therapy.
 

SarahChelonoidis

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Lots of things can cause back leg weakness; MBD is one option. Those CFL don't often produce much UVB and many people don't mount them correctly or replace them frequently enough (every ~6 months) to work properly. If your tortoise wasn't getting regular time in outside and you were just relying on an improperly maintained CFL, your tortoise may have lacked the vitamin D needed to process calcium resulting in MBD. It also could be something else.

Get your tortoise outside - the T5 10.0 bulbs generally produce a good amount of UVB but nothing beats the real sun. Don't be tempted into over supplementing - calcium with d3 is important right now, but follow directions from your vet and don't overdo. Put the cuttlebone back in the enclosure and get that tortoise into a safe outdoor space with unfiltered sunlight.
 

Hector108

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If he is like dragging himself (using front legs to walk and refusing to use rear legs) it could be kidney problems. Keep us updated about his progress.
 

Hector108

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The things in the enclosure should be arranged in such a way so that he can't get injured, but for him to be able to exercise his body. I am stating this because lack of exercise can also play a part on his problem.
 

CathyNed

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Thanks guys. Soaking twice daily. Peeing and urates daily.Very large poop today. He seems to be putting out his willy when he tries to poop. Is this an indication of a problem? Seems to look more alert. Still syringe feeding as unsure about feeding solids after the previous incident.
 

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