Severe Aggression

[BowandWalter]

Walter has over the last 3-4 days started showing extreme aggression towards me, normally he nips a little if I'm doing stuff in his house or soaking him, but he's gotten to the point that he's breaking skin, and not just like a little bit. He got my pinkie finger today and bit a chunk off, I can't actually bend my pinkie without it starting to bleed profusely. This can't be "normal" he's never been this aggressive. Nothing in his life has changed, his routines are all still in place. What would cause this? Is there some non cruel way to stop it? My nails aren't painted red, though all the bite marks are pretty bloody. I don't usually hand feed, I didn't want to encourage his previous nipping.
It's at the point where I'm afraid to change his water dish because he attacks me. I have to trap him in his house just to clean his house and feed him.

I do already have a skin condition on my hands which means I don't have many skin layers, but his nipping never made me bleed before. This is seriously out of hand (haha).

 

[CourtneyAndCarl]

Do you know how old he is? Maybe he's reaching sexual maturity

 

[tortadise]

Russian? If so its that time of year. My russian males right now are very very aggressive, and even have to be seperated amongst other the other males. They will bite the bejesus out of me if I present my appendages in the enclosure for long enough for them to run over and show dominance by biting.

 

[BowandWalter]

He's 5, his normal nippy horny man self is what I'm used to. This is crazy, it's way past his usual biting. All he does is attack me, I took him to his outside pen because I thought he was just jittery, no, he was either trying to bite me or if he couldn't bite he bashing back and forth because he couldn't reach me. I tried letting him out after his soak like normal to run on the floor, still all he does is attack me, if he can't get me he rams everything, he had a full out battle with the door to my closet. The weird spinning dance thing I posted about before has gotten out of control, it's what he does to get to places to vent his frustration about not getting to bite me. I can't make him stop, treats are violently attacked like everything else, he doesn't even eat them.

He's a Hermann's tortoise.

 

[tortadise]

I have never experianced that with a hermann before. Only russians I have seen be that aggressive, well and angulated but they are called fighting tortoises for a reason I suppose. I honestly dont know what to tell yah. They are still a wild animal, just showing his dominance in his own way. Sorry for all the madness he is showing you.

 

[BowandWalter]

I'm at a loss for what to do so I'm just trying what worked with aggressive cichlids. I just moved everything, my entire apartment is moved around, his table is entirely different. He seems more interested in climbing his new rock pile then attacking me right now, which is good, small steps to victory.

Nothing looks better then tortoise bites packed with cocoa coir. A painful hand wash is in my near future.

 

[jtrux]

Bite him back, they hate that.

 

[ascott]

Have you attempted to be a step more dominant that him? Meaning, if he comes charging towards you with aggression---why not (and nobody get huffy with me please) simply give him a bit of a thump back? I mean enough that he has to really get riled and then remember--you are ALOT bigger and faster than he is ---and not allow him to get the upper hand on you....I mean after all, he is a little tortoise and you are the giant food, shelter ruler...

Also, if you know that you are going to tend to his enclosure/yard---go straight to him, pick him up (without hesitation) and put him in another place where he is not able to have control of the situation...there is no reason a tort this species/size should be allowed nor able to terrorize you....come on with it----be the ruler here and accept nothing less....you are simply being bullied in lieu of another tort to punk around you have now offered yourself up (please don't take my words as an assault on you--this is not my intention whatsoever )

 

[Tortus]

Are you sure it isn't a snapping turtle?

 

[BowandWalter]

Have you attempted to be a step more dominant that him? Meaning, if he comes charging towards you with aggression---why not (and nobody get huffy with me please) simply give him a bit of a thump back? I mean enough that he has to really get riled and then remember--you are ALOT bigger and faster than he is ---and not allow him to get the upper hand on you....I mean after all, he is a little tortoise and you are the giant food, shelter ruler...

Also, if you know that you are going to tend to his enclosure/yard---go straight to him, pick him up (without hesitation) and put him in another place where he is not able to have control of the situation...there is no reason a tort this species/size should be allowed nor able to terrorize you....come on with it----be the ruler here and accept nothing less....you are simply being bullied in lieu of another tort to punk around you have now offered yourself up (please don't take my words as an assault on you--this is not my intention whatsoever )

Haha no offense taken! I fully realize that the creature terrorizing me is only 4 inches long. If I give him a "thump" and get him more angry wouldn't that worsen the situation? He's already pretty angry. I've been trying to just firmly pick him up and move him away from attacking me, he just runs back twice as angry.

What I don't get is what caused this, it's so out of his normal behavior.

---

Are you sure it isn't a snapping turtle?

I'm starting to have my doubts...

 

[ascott]

Well, here is a "lets say" scenario (completely created and played out in my head and therefore there will be no references to reference and based COMPLETELY on my life experiences with a variety of animals)

I am a creature that likes to stomp around minding my own business, well mostly because I am designed not to get along well with other---no need, well okay---for only one need (s.e.x.)

I am a creature designed to get along with another (for that one reason) and there is no other to have this Barry White moment with, so yup---I am going to be a bit of an A**hole and can not control it---why should I, you don't control me so heck---I am going to do to you what I would do to the said "non existent" creature I would normally do this ramming, biting and relentless bullying ....now you have let me bite you and ram you and punk you----it kinda feels like it would if a chick of my own kind were the recipient instead of you----and I am getting much more frustrated acting out these rituals with you---this giant that I am sure I can beat down enough to allow me to get my "squeak" on....so, you bet your butt I am going to keep on .....

Solution; stop being punked and be the bigger bully (tough love, emphasis on the tough love )

Yes, there is a chance your "ramming" him back can **** him off, however, he sounds pretty pissed already---so if you are not comfortable waiting out this challenge---then don't. You can go the alternate route and take complete physical control of him anytime you "want" to mess with him or his enclosure/yard....you can simply pick him up and keep physical control of him until you are done doing what you are wanting to----you know what I mean...

 

[BowandWalter]

Well, here is a "lets say" scenario (completely created and played out in my head and therefore there will be no references to reference and based COMPLETELY on my life experiences with a variety of animals)

I am a creature that likes to stomp around minding my own business, well mostly because I am designed not to get along well with other---no need, well okay---for only one need (s.e.x.)

I am a creature designed to get along with another (for that one reason) and there is no other to have this Barry White moment with, so yup---I am going to be a bit of an A**hole and can not control it---why should I, you don't control me so heck---I am going to do to you what I would do to the said "non existent" creature I would normally do this ramming, biting and relentless bullying ....now you have let me bite you and ram you and punk you----it kinda feels like it would if a chick of my own kind were the recipient instead of you----and I am getting much more frustrated acting out these rituals with you---this giant that I am sure I can beat down enough to allow me to get my "squeak" on....so, you bet your butt I am going to keep on .....

Solution; stop being punked and be the bigger bully (tough love, emphasis on the tough love )

Yes, there is a chance your "ramming" him back can **** him off, however, he sounds pretty pissed already---so if you are not comfortable waiting out this challenge---then don't. You can go the alternate route and take complete physical control of him anytime you "want" to mess with him or his enclosure/yard....you can simply pick him up and keep physical control of him until you are done doing what you are wanting to----you know what I mean...

But how will knocking him around accomplish what just moving him away didn't? Won't it just turn into a pathetically humorous fight where I continually flick Walter and he continually tries to bite?

It's not like his typical male behavior, he's not trying to get busy with anything anymore, just attack things. It's really strange, I'm used to his normal biting, this is different. It's more violent, it doesn't seem just like mating behavior. Before he'd bite at things and try to have "Barry White" moments, now he bites and doesn't let go, he's not interested in doing any of the male things he was into before.

 

[CourtneyAndCarl]

Well, here is a "lets say" scenario (completely created and played out in my head and therefore there will be no references to reference and based COMPLETELY on my life experiences with a variety of animals)

I am a creature that likes to stomp around minding my own business, well mostly because I am designed not to get along well with other---no need, well okay---for only one need (s.e.x.)

I am a creature designed to get along with another (for that one reason) and there is no other to have this Barry White moment with, so yup---I am going to be a bit of an A**hole and can not control it---why should I, you don't control me so heck---I am going to do to you what I would do to the said "non existent" creature I would normally do this ramming, biting and relentless bullying ....now you have let me bite you and ram you and punk you----it kinda feels like it would if a chick of my own kind were the recipient instead of you----and I am getting much more frustrated acting out these rituals with you---this giant that I am sure I can beat down enough to allow me to get my "squeak" on....so, you bet your butt I am going to keep on .....

Solution; stop being punked and be the bigger bully (tough love, emphasis on the tough love )

Yes, there is a chance your "ramming" him back can **** him off, however, he sounds pretty pissed already---so if you are not comfortable waiting out this challenge---then don't. You can go the alternate route and take complete physical control of him anytime you "want" to mess with him or his enclosure/yard....you can simply pick him up and keep physical control of him until you are done doing what you are wanting to----you know what I mean...

But how will knocking him around accomplish what just moving him away didn't? Won't it just turn into a pathetically humorous fight where I continually flick Walter and he continually tries to bite?

It's not like his typical male behavior, he's not trying to get busy with anything anymore, just attack things. It's really strange, I'm used to his normal biting, this is different. It's more violent, it doesn't seem just like mating behavior. Before he'd bite at things and try to have "Barry White" moments, now he bites and doesn't let go, he's not interested in doing any of the male things he was into before.

If you were another male tortoise, in his mind he is completely dominating you right now. If you were to turn around and show him who is really boss, he would get the picture. I have actually heard a lot of people say to turn them over on their backs.... apparently a tortoise turning another tortoise on its back is a HUGE sign of dominance. All depends on how "mean" you are willing to be, I guess.

 

[shellysmom]

I think your tort done gone hormone-crazy, lol!

Seriously, though, it's too bad. I hope he doesn't stay this way. If all else fails, get a good pair of work gloves to protect your hands... And that's my lame advice. :/

 

[Yvonne G]

Instead of thumping him, you could gently lay him on his back until you're finished doing whatever in his tank. Then turn him back over and go away and leave him alone.

 

[Spn785]

Bite him back, they hate that.

I had the same thought. LOL
Seriously though, I would turn him on his back if he tries to attack you. The more you do this the less likely he is to try and attack and eventually he might stop all together.

 

[lovelyrosepetal]

I agree with emysemys, I would just lay him on his back. It will create dominance and he might stop attacking you because you are the dominant "tortoise". If that doesn't work, I have no suggestions. I do not think that this is an issue of being mean. I think this is just you trying to get your life back. You have done nothing to deserve this treatment and you need to take steps that will, hopefully get you and your tortoise back on track. Please keep us updated on the situation and Good Luck!

 

[Snowywood]

Hi, hope you don't mind me asking, but have you taken him to the vets? Just to make sure there are no hidden illnesses that could be making him behave this way?

 

[BowandWalter]

I just got back from morning classes and I'm about to try what everyone has told me when he gets his soak and breakfast. I'll tell everyone how it goes.
He does seem less manic now that his house is all different.

---

Hi, hope you don't mind me asking, but have you taken him to the vets? Just to make sure there are no hidden illnesses that could be making him behave this way?

Not recently, I moved 3 months ago and am still trying to find my way around. I have been looking into finding a good reptile vet, there's always lots of mixed reviews though, often most of them know nothing about tortoises. The ones I've visited are not up to even my level of basic care knowledge, which is not good. I always feel like the members here know more then the average veterinarian.

 

[Spn785]

I know what you mean by Vets not knowing much about general tortoise/turtle care, there are two "Reptile" Vets in my town and I have heard horror about both. I decided that if I need to go to a vet I will travel the two hours to the nearest one I trust.