Sahel region

[rearlpettway]

We posted this to the Facebook groups that we belong to in order to encourage people to stop keeping their Sulcata's in desert type enclosures.

The Saharan desert consist of eight ecoregions: Atlantic coastal desert, North Saharan steppe and woodlands, Sahara desert, South Saharan steppe and woodlands (Sahel region), West Saharan montane xeric woodlands, Tibesti-Jebel Uweinat montane xeric woodlands, Saharan halophytics, Tanezrouft ecoregion.
Sulcata's don't occur in the Sahara desert ecoregion were it is hot and hyper-arid.
Sulcata's do occur in the Sahel region. The Sahel is mostly covered in grassland and savanna, with areas of woodland and shrubland. Grass cover is fairly continuous across the region, dominated by annual grass species such as Cenchrus biflorus, Schoenefeldia gracilis,and Aristida stipoides. Species of acacia are the dominant trees, with Acacia tortilis the most common, along with Acacia senegal and Acacia laeta. Other tree species include Commiphora africana, Balanites aegyptiaca, Faidherbia albida, and Boscia senegalensis. In the northern part of the Sahel, areas of desert shrub, including Panicum turgidumand Aristida sieberana, alternate with areas of grassland and savanna.
Although it is arid for most of the year, the tortoises are underground during that time. Wild Sulcata's spend 95%-98% of their time in their warm humid burrows.
During the annual monsoon season (July through October) it is hot, rainy, humid, and there are puddles, marshes and green growing food everywhere. The start of this rainy season is, not coincidentally, when the babies hatch. The babies don't start showing themselves in broad day light above ground until they reach the 8"-10" mark.
This is one reason why we recommend keeping the hatchlings and babies in a closed high humidity enclosure.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how we can improve this post?



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[mike taylor]

Pictures of grasses and trees with their names by them . If we can plant natural grasses and shrubbery then the healthier the tortoise .

 

[rearlpettway]

Pictures of grasses and trees with their names by them . If we can plant natural grasses and shrubbery then the healthier the tortoise .

I like that idea.
I am on it✌️


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[leopard777]

i think you need to improve general care sheet provide by many website first , many of it fail to mention that hatchings need to be kept hot and in high humility , most of them mention its hot and dry conditions

 

[rearlpettway]

i think you need to improve general care sheet provide by many website first , many of it fail to mention that hatchings need to be kept hot and in high humility , most of them mention its hot and dry conditions

We have already done that over and over again. But some just won't listen.


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[rearlpettway]

i think you need to improve general care sheet provide by many website first , many of it fail to mention that hatchings need to be kept hot and in high humility , most of them mention its hot and dry conditions

We thought that if people knew where they lived in the wild that would get them to understand that they need to be kept hot and humid.


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[wellington]

Good luck. Even most veteranarians give very poor raising advice. I had it out with one in my area. Tried to get them to change their leopard care sheet. Asked them to check out this forum and Toms threads for raising leopards and sulcatas the hot and humid way, that he has shared with us years ago and still, they changed nothing. I guess the best we can do is keep trying and maybe get them to view this forum and check out the ones that are being kept hot and humid and they can see how smooth they are. However, we have members, that don't participate any more that don't raise theirs to be smooth, because it's too much work for them, sad.

Another thing I can recommend is offer up some credentials, for me, if I don't get to know,you better and see proof of what your talking about, whether in your own torts or someone else's, like Toms and his own experience and experiments he so openly shares with us, I wouldnt listen to you either. How would I know you know what your talking about?

 

[wellington]

We have already done that over and over again. But some just won't listen.


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Welcome to Toms world. He has been trying to get it through people's heads since before I joined. Some he wins, some he doesn't. Also, like I said in my other post, some are too lazy to put in a couple extra minutes.

 

[Tom]

Love this Rodney.

Keep trying. More and more people will listen and eventually clue in.

 

[wellington]

One more thing. Although I know from Tom sharing this info about the burrows, the time the torts stay in them and the hatching time of year, how do you know all the other stuff? If from experience of living there, share that with them. If just by searching the Internet, well, not that you can believe all you read on the Internet, but maybe share the sites with them that you got the info from. You could also share Toms threads with them, he has more years experience I beleive then you do and if not, he does have more time being a member of this forum and maybe that would help sway some.

 

[Amanda81]

We posted this to the Facebook groups that we belong to in order to encourage people to stop keeping their Sulcata's in desert type enclosures.

The Saharan desert consist of eight ecoregions: Atlantic coastal desert, North Saharan steppe and woodlands, Sahara desert, South Saharan steppe and woodlands (Sahel region), West Saharan montane xeric woodlands, Tibesti-Jebel Uweinat montane xeric woodlands, Saharan halophytics, Tanezrouft ecoregion.
Sulcata's don't occur in the Sahara desert ecoregion were it is hot and hyper-arid.
Sulcata's do occur in the Sahel region. The Sahel is mostly covered in grassland and savanna, with areas of woodland and shrubland. Grass cover is fairly continuous across the region, dominated by annual grass species such as Cenchrus biflorus, Schoenefeldia gracilis,and Aristida stipoides. Species of acacia are the dominant trees, with Acacia tortilis the most common, along with Acacia senegal and Acacia laeta. Other tree species include Commiphora africana, Balanites aegyptiaca, Faidherbia albida, and Boscia senegalensis. In the northern part of the Sahel, areas of desert shrub, including Panicum turgidumand Aristida sieberana, alternate with areas of grassland and savanna.
Although it is arid for most of the year, the tortoises are underground during that time. Wild Sulcata's spend 95%-98% of their time in their warm humid burrows.
During the annual monsoon season (July through October) it is hot, rainy, humid, and there are puddles, marshes and green growing food everywhere. The start of this rainy season is, not coincidentally, when the babies hatch. The babies don't start showing themselves in broad day light above ground until they reach the 8"-10" mark.
This is one reason why we recommend keeping the hatchlings and babies in a closed high humidity enclosure.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how we can improve this post?



Sent from Rodney Earl Pettway's iPad using TortForum

Perhaps you could could do a thread on this forum of a tort raised the "old school way" vs the right way. Have a bunch of pics of each tort and explain exactly what their looking for and at, the put a link to that specific thread on your Facebook. It's sad to say but I have noticed a lot of times people do stuff wrong because they to lazy to do it right. When I first started researching there was a lot to research, if I was one of these people that short cut everything, to lazy to do the research I would have read maybe 2 thing (both most likely would have referred to the wrong method) and said ok, I'm ready to go. Maybe if you put all the correct info and examples of what you are actually doing to your tort when u do it wrong, in one place w a link, maybe some of these people will take to the right way too. Just a suggestion.

 

[leopard777]

well someone has to start filming their natural habitat and make a documentary about it , cant find any , guess first thing comes to mind that, oh its from africa , sure is hot and "dry" there .

 

[mike taylor]

Perhaps you could could do a thread on this forum of a tort raised the "old school way" vs the right way. Have a bunch of pics of each tort and explain exactly what their looking for and at, the put a link to that specific thread on your Facebook. It's sad to say but I have noticed a lot of times people do stuff wrong because they to lazy to do it right. When I first started researching there was a lot to research, if I was one of these people that short cut everything, to lazy to do the research I would have read maybe 2 thing (both most likely would have referred to the wrong method) and said ok, I'm ready to go. Maybe if you put all the correct info and examples of what you are actually doing to your tort when u do it wrong, in one place w a link, maybe some of these people will take to the right way too. Just a suggestion.

I do this all the time . Every time I walk in a pet shop I will show them pictures of Harry then Dozer . Then give them a care sheet . I have got two shops to add a water bowl to the enclosure . But they say it cost to much to use substrate instead of rabbit food . Baby steps . It will get around .

 

[mike taylor]

See like this .Harry raised cthe old way Dozer raised the Tom's way. Witch one would you be proud to say you raised? The pyramided one or smooth? I know Harry isn't pyramiding bad but pyramided nonetheless.

 

[mike taylor]

I like that idea.
I am on it✌️


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I would like to thank you for your time and for helping our torts . Many times over THANK YOU!

 

[rearlpettway]

One more thing. Although I know from Tom sharing this info about the burrows, the time the torts stay in them and the hatching time of year, how do you know all the other stuff? If from experience of living there, share that with them. If just by searching the Internet, well, not that you can believe all you read on the Internet, but maybe share the sites with them that you got the info from. You could also share Toms threads with them, he has more years experience I beleive then you do and if not, he does have more time being a member of this forum and maybe that would help sway some.

I learned most, if not all of my information from Tom.


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[wellington]

I learned most, if not all of my information from Tom.


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Me too. So keep trying to get them to look over the forum and read his threads, they don't have to join, to read threads and posts. Let them know that you learned it too. It comes off that you have experience with actually being in Africa. Let them know,that you too learned this info from an experienced member with over 20 years of raising and experimenting in raising sulcatas to be healthy and smooth. Let them know that you too thought that hot and dry was the way, until you joined this forum and seen for yourself that it's not the right way and that most species of tortoises are not suppose to be pyramided.
Then hope for the best. You will get back lashing, I got plenty in this forum a few years back when I referred every single new member with leopards and sulcatas to Toms threads. They were probably the lazy people that didn't want to spend the extra time on their torts proper care. Keep pushing though, I do and eventually they give up or leave.

 

[wellington]

Oh, and also tell them, if they want to be with the really cool tortoise owners, they are all here on this forum

 

[rearlpettway]

well someone has to start filming their natural habitat and make a documentary about it , cant find any , guess first thing comes to mind that, oh its from africa , sure is hot and "dry" there .

We have a 1 hour video of a wild Leopard tortoise from Ethiopia.


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[Amanda81]

Why are they nothing on tortoises? I have wondered this but never asked cause I thought maybe I wasn't looking in the right places but besides a few hour long "specials" on tortoises in general I haven't really seen much. They study specific breeds of dogs, horses, well pretty much everything but not really specific torts, their all kinda lumped together in stuff. I don't understand why there isn't more study's on them. I mean people have studied just about everything but we don't know what goes on with a hatchling? Why?
If this stuff is out there please point me in right direction cause I would like to read or watch it.