RI treatment options from vet

[Chip's mom]

Hi all!

We have an older Eastern Hermann's tortoise that was sold to us from Tortoise Town (I wish I'd found this group before purchasing there) as a hatchling Eastern Box Turtle. He came with worms and pyramided, we're treating him as a rescue. The vet says we have no way of knowing his early life but can assume the husbandry was not good. We love him and are happy he came to us and have worked hard to give him the right care.

Anyway, he has had whistling for a few months. We took him to the vet who diagnosed an RI and prescribed a long course of antibiotic Fortaz shots. These vets are experienced with reptiles. He has not improved from meds. She is inclined to think that it is viral and not do more meds, said we can do x-rays or other things to further investigate if we want. I don't want to put him through that if it is viral.

He has no runny nose or eyes and is eating and acting perfectly normal with lots of energy, just making the whistling breathing sound. We have been keeping his humidity and temperatures up. Would you do any further testing or assume it's viral and let him be, focusing on good husbandry?

Thank you!

 

[zolasmum]

Hi all!

We have an older Eastern Hermann's tortoise that was sold to us from Tortoise Town (I wish I'd found this group before purchasing there) as a hatchling Eastern Box Turtle. He came with worms and pyramided, we're treating him as a rescue. The vet says we have no way of knowing his early life but can assume the husbandry was not good. We love him and are happy he came to us and have worked hard to give him the right care.

Anyway, he has had whistling for a few months. We took him to the vet who diagnosed an RI and prescribed a long course of antibiotic Fortaz shots. These vets are experienced with reptiles. He has not improved from meds. She is inclined to think that it is viral and not do more meds, said we can do x-rays or other things to further investigate if we want. I don't want to put him through that if it is viral.

He has no runny nose or eyes and is eating and acting perfectly normal with lots of energy, just making the whistling breathing sound. We have been keeping his humidity and temperatures up. Would you do any further testing or assume it's viral and let him be, focusing on good husbandry?

Thank you!

Does he whistle all the time, or just occasionally? Our Hermann's tortoise (now aged 22 ) sometimes makes whistling noises, and it doesn't seem to bother him at all. I have wondered if there is a partial blockage of his nostrils - possibly from over-enthusiastic eating - if his behaviour is normal, I'm not worrying.
Maybe that's all it is with yours.
I am not an expert, however, and maybe someone with more knowledge will be more help.
Angie ( UK)

 

[wellington]

I wouldnt do ani further treatment and I would not have so much confidence in the vet. I believe their diagnosis was wrong from the beginning or the meds would have worked.
Did they take any blood work or do anything other than look at the tort to make their decision?
I would just he sure your tort doesn't get cold and keep an extra eye on him to be sure he doesn't get worse or other symptoms.

 

[Chip's mom]

Does he whistle all the time, or just occasionally? Our Hermann's tortoise (now aged 22 ) sometimes makes whistling noises, and it doesn't seem to bother him at all. I have wondered if there is a partial blockage of his nostrils - possibly from over-enthusiastic eating - if his behaviour is normal, I'm not worrying.
Maybe that's all it is with yours.
I am not an expert, however, and maybe someone with more knowledge will be more help.
Angie ( UK)

It started after he was in a wet environment maybe 72 degrees (I later learned from the breeder of our other tortoise that wet should be above 75) and the whistling happens pretty often. The vet is confident in the respiratory infection diagnosis (could be viral and not respond to antibiotics). He really doesn't have any other symptoms and is totally good otherwise, so we're hoping that doesn't change.

It's funny that you said that because my husband is convinced that it has to do with a nostril blockage. We use orchid bark, not coconut choir so I wasn't sure how it could be blocked, my husband thinks scales, or maybe eating like you said. We have tried a saline flush.

Thanks so much!

 

[Beasty_Artemis]

It could be nothing to worry about though!!
My red foot has whistled her whole life continuously. She just makes a breathing noise. She is 5

 

[Chip's mom]

I wouldnt do ani further treatment and I would not have so much confidence in the vet. I believe their diagnosis was wrong from the beginning or the meds would have worked.
Did they take any blood work or do anything other than look at the tort to make their decision?
I would just he sure your tort doesn't get cold and keep an extra eye on him to be sure he doesn't get worse or other symptoms.

The vet said that some infections are viral (which wouldn't respond to meds) and others are bacterial (which would). She has offered blood work and an x-ray, we're just not sure if it's needed to put the little guy through all of that.

She seems competent from what I can tell- graduated from one of the top vet schools in the US with a speciality in exotics and reptiles, and could further treat him if we pushed for that, just not sure if we should do more or let him be since he is perfectly fine except for this whistling sound (which is frequent).

It has been going on for about 4 months and gets worse and better at times, no other symptoms, eating well, and full of energy.

 

[zolasmum]

The vet said that some infections are viral (which wouldn't respond to meds) and others are bacterial (which would). She has offered blood work and an x-ray, we're just not sure if it's needed to put the little guy through all of that.

She seems competent from what I can tell- graduated from one of the top vet schools in the US with a speciality in exotics and reptiles, and could further treat him if we pushed for that, just not sure if we should do more or let him be since he is perfectly fine except for this whistling sound (which is frequent).

It has been going on for about 4 months and gets worse and better at times, no other symptoms, eating well, and full of energy.

My personal opinion would be that it would be better just to leave it be - perhaps you could keep a diary of when he whistles - length of time and severity - what he has eaten recently (I don't know if torts get allergies to food ? ) and what his environment is like at the time. You just might see a pattern in it.
See how he gets on, and get back to the vet if it gets more severe, but it might just wear off over time.
Best wishes from Angie.

P.s. I am not an expert, so don't rely on me if someone else has a better idea !

 

[Chip's mom]

Thank you Angie! That's a good idea, we will track it.

Really thankful for the support, hard to know the right thing to do for these sweet creatures. This forum is wonderful!

 

[Yvonne G]

Under a very bright light, and a magnifying glass, if you have one, try to see inside his nares. He may just have a blockage causing the whistling.

Because a tortoise's nostrils lead to the roof of his mouth, and not down his throat, you can flush his nose with sterile saline. Using a little squirt bottle give it a couple firm squirts to try and dislodge any obstruction.

 

[wellington]

The vet said that some infections are viral (which wouldn't respond to meds) and others are bacterial (which would). She has offered blood work and an x-ray, we're just not sure if it's needed to put the little guy through all of that.

She seems competent from what I can tell- graduated from one of the top vet schools in the US with a speciality in exotics and reptiles, and could further treat him if we pushed for that, just not sure if we should do more or let him be since he is perfectly fine except for this whistling sound (which is frequent).

It has been going on for about 4 months and gets worse and better at times, no other symptoms, eating well, and full of energy.

Hopefully she does know what she's doing. Just so you do know, there is no courses/semester on tortoises.
It does sound good though except my opinion, no animal should be treated with drugs without at least a clue of what they are treating it for. Blood work at least should/could show something.
Maybe try just leaving her be and keeping a close eye on her. If at any time you feel she is getting worse and you take her in, do at least the blood work.

 

[Chip's mom]

Under a very bright light, and a magnifying glass, if you have one, try to see inside his nares. He may just have a blockage causing the whistling.

Because a tortoise's nostrils lead to the roof of his mouth, and not down his throat, you can flush his nose with sterile saline. Using a little squirt bottle give it a couple firm squirts to try and dislodge any obstruction.

Thanks Yvonne. My husband thinks it is more nasal than lungs. We tried to suck with a baby aspirator which didn't do anything, so we will try this. Thank you for the encouragement! Will update once we do that today or tomorrow.

 

[Chip's mom]

Hopefully she does know what she's doing. Just so you do know, there is no courses/semester on tortoises.
It does sound good though except my opinion, no animal should be treated with drugs without at least a clue of what they are treating it for. Blood work at least should/could show something.
Maybe try just leaving her be and keeping a close eye on her. If at any time you feel she is getting worse and you take her in, do at least the blood work.

There should be courses on tortoises! Luckily this vet at least on a personal level is really into reptile, she has been rescuing others (not tortoises). I agree with that especially since antibiotics are not without a medical downside. Thinking we'll do Yvonne's suggestion with the saline flush, keep an eye on him, and if things are worse then request bloodwork or x-ray before further treatment.

Thanks so much for the thoughts!

 

[mark1]

exotic vets ,learn on exotic animals , it's part of their curriculum , vet schools work in partnerships with zoos and aquariums ...... universities also have exotic animal clinics , the university of florida off the top of my head ........ exotic vets aren't dog vets that couldn't get a dog vet job ........ they had an interest in exotics and went to school for it , and not for the money ..... chronic mycoplasma infections can damage the nasal passages , the damage can be there even if the tortoise is unaffected by the mycoplasma infection ...... mycoplasma is a bacteria ,it will not respond to fortaz (ceftazidime) ....... if your tortoise is eating and well otherwise ,keep him in optimal conditions , finish his meds and as long as he continues eating and thermoregulating normally , forget about it ..... if it's mycoplasma they can live with it under good enviromental conditions , if it's viral i think he'd do really poorly , really soon ,most viral diseases i'm familiar with kill them pretty quickly ,if not they get better .........

 

[Chip's mom]

exotic vets ,learn on exotic animals , it's part of their curriculum , vet schools work in partnerships with zoos and aquariums ...... universities also have exotic animal clinics , the university of florida off the top of my head ........ exotic vets aren't dog vets that couldn't get a dog vet job ........ they had an interest in exotics and went to school for it , and not for the money ..... chronic mycoplasma infections can damage the nasal passages , the damage can be there even if the tortoise is unaffected by the mycoplasma infection ...... mycoplasma is a bacteria ,it will not respond to fortaz (ceftazidime) ....... if your tortoise is eating and well otherwise ,keep him in optimal conditions , finish his meds and as long as he continues eating and thermoregulating normally , forget about it ..... if it's mycoplasma they can live with it under good enviromental conditions , if it's viral i think he'd do really poorly , really soon ,most viral diseases i'm familiar with kill them pretty quickly ,if not they get better .........

Oh wow this is interesting and sounds like it is unlikely viral since it has been a few months and his behavior and eating are unchanged. I found this article which seems consistent with what you're saying-- sounds like there is an extensive treatment for mycoplasma but it is unlikely to eradicate it. My husband (a Dr) said in humans there is a different form or antibiotic for mycoplasma infections (azithromycin).

https://veterinarypartner.vin.com/default.aspx?pid=19239&catId=102919&id=8017697

So if it is unlikely to really cure the infection is it worth that all that treatment that would be stressful for him when he is current doing okay...

This is a hard one! My kids and we love him so much, I want to be sure to do the best thing for him, so it is relieving to hear that nothing might be the best in this situation.

 

[zolasmum]

Oh wow this is interesting and sounds like it is unlikely viral since it has been a few months and his behavior and eating are unchanged. I found this article which seems consistent with what you're saying-- sounds like there is an extensive treatment for mycoplasma but it is unlikely to eradicate it. My husband (a Dr) said in humans there is a different form or antibiotic for mycoplasma infections (azithromycin).

https://veterinarypartner.vin.com/default.aspx?pid=19239&catId=102919&id=8017697

So if it is unlikely to really cure the infection is it worth that all that treatment that would be stressful for him when he is current doing okay...

This is a hard one! My kids and we love him so much, I want to be sure to do the best thing for him, so it is relieving to hear that nothing might be the best in this situation.

I have found all this very interesting, and as Zola's occasional spell of whistling doesn't seem to bother him at all, I am going to leave it, and not mess him around unless it gets much more frequent or causes any problem - which is what i've been doing all along. I am used to his dad calling me Whistler's Mother - and also I don't disillusion people who thin he is whistling to communicate with them - maybe they are even right !
Angie

 

[Chip's mom]

I have found all this very interesting, and as Zola's occasional spell of whistling doesn't seem to bother him at all, I am going to leave it, and not mess him around unless it gets much more frequent or causes any problem - which is what i've been doing all along. I am used to his dad calling me Whistler's Mother - and also I don't disillusion people who thin he is whistling to communicate with them - maybe they are even right !
Angie

That's so good to know that he has been okay for a long time with the whistling! I think Chip does it more when he's agitated. When we travel he stays in a different enclosure and he does not like that (though he does love getting to walk on the beach), and he was doing it much more.

Hope Zola is enjoying his summer outings! 😀

 

[zolasmum]

That's so good to know that he has been okay for a long time with the whistling! I think Chip does it more when he's agitated. When we travel he stays in a different enclosure and he does not like that (though he does love getting to walk on the beach), and he was doing it much more.

Hope Zola is enjoying his summer outings! 😀

Zola is out with his dad having a walk by the sea at the moment ! He goes out every day, and met a lady this morning who said he had "enhanced" her day, which was rather nice. People often say "You've made my day" to him, of course,when they meet him.
I think, now you mention it, Zola whistles more when he gets a bit over-excited, but it isn't consistent. I just don't worry about it these days.
Angie

 

[DaphneV]

Hi all!

We have an older Eastern Hermann's tortoise that was sold to us from Tortoise Town (I wish I'd found this group before purchasing there) as a hatchling Eastern Box Turtle. He came with worms and pyramided, we're treating him as a rescue. The vet says we have no way of knowing his early life but can assume the husbandry was not good. We love him and are happy he came to us and have worked hard to give him the right care.

Anyway, he has had whistling for a few months. We took him to the vet who diagnosed an RI and prescribed a long course of antibiotic Fortaz shots. These vets are experienced with reptiles. He has not improved from meds. She is inclined to think that it is viral and not do more meds, said we can do x-rays or other things to further investigate if we want. I don't want to put him through that if it is viral.

He has no runny nose or eyes and is eating and acting perfectly normal with lots of energy, just making the whistling breathing sound. We have been keeping his humidity and temperatures up. Would you do any further testing or assume it's viral and let him be, focusing on good husbandry?

Thank you!

We are dealing with a RI also with our rescued red foot who is 13 years old. It’s been 3 months of antibiotic shots. Today we were told he’s 75% better and we have a few more months to go. If we didn’t see improvement today the vet suggested doing a culture to check if the correct antibiotic was being used. She says it takes a long time for them to get sick, and a long time to recover.

 

[Chip's mom]

Oh wow 6 months of antibiotics? What antibiotic are they using? I hope that he's better soon!

 

[DaphneV]

Oh wow 6 months of antibiotics? What antibiotic are they using? I hope that he's better soon!

He is on Ceftazidime 2.5 cc every 3 days injected into his leg. He was in bad shape when we got him. His X-rays were scary. He’s doing so much better but we still have a ways to go.