Radiated's new orchid bark substrate

[ISTortoiseLover]

Hello everyone, I couldn't find cypress mulch, so I went for the next best thing available... Orchid bark.. Unfortunately, I seem to have bought the bark in rather big chunks. Doh!


Elebaba being real cautious...

 

[ISTortoiseLover]

The "Orchid bark" I bought is made from Pinus Radiata, which is the Monterey Pine according to wikipedia.

Didn't you guys mention something about staying away from Pine? YIKES!!!!! Advice please someone!

Here's the product overview I got from the manufacturer's website.

Orchiata Overview
Orchiata is a sustainable orchid growing substrate produced from the finest quality, 100% pure New Zealand Pinus radiata bark. Pinus radiata is sourced from renewable, man made forests ensuring availability into the future.

New ZealandPinus radiata is a hard and stable bark compared to other pine species; however, it needs to be processed from its raw state. Our unique natural process creates a high quality, stable, long lasting, toxin free, consistent growing substrate available in different sizes for your specific growing needs.

Our process allows Orchiata to hold water and nutrients on the outside layer of each chip, as well as creating a slightly rough surface for roots to anchor to. Pathogens do not survive this process, however beneficial micro-organisms remain.

Orchiata retains the best attributes of Pinus radiata, and combines them with longevity, ability to rewet quickly and long term stability. Growers’ have reported that frequent re-potting is not necessary, as potted plants have been known to remain in excellent condition in excess of 10 years.

There is no longer a need for you to refine your orchid potting media as we have done all of the work for you!

All of our Besgrow bark products, including Orchiata, are produced from sustainable, renewable New Zealand Pinus radiata forests

 

[Tom]

Hi Andrew. I'm discovering that what I have always called "orchid bark" can be made from many types of bark. Apparently "orchid bark" is just a general term that refers to any media suitable for growing orchids and does not refer to a specific type of wood used. Yours does not look like the one I use here in Southern CA.

With a radiata in an indoor enclosure, I would not trust that stuff you've got there. Also as you noted, those chunks are just too big. It MIGHT be fine, but what is an acceptable risk for you?

 

[ISTortoiseLover]

Oh boy, what rotten luck. I had a feeling mine weren't the right ones. I've got to return that bag of bark, it's moldy too! I removed all the bark from the enclosure.
I didn't see any other bark or mulch of sorts available, only sphagnum moss which costs a bomb.
Was really looking forward to finding those cypress mulch though.

 

[egyptiandan]

It should be fine. That comes from a thick barked tree, so the bits they are flaking off aren't alive any more. This way they don't contain the same saps that the living bark does. You can always tell if a substrate is fine to use by your nose. If it smells like pine or cedar, than it's not good to use.

Danny

 

[ISTortoiseLover]

Oh, I see. Danny should I be worried abt the White powdery mold in the substrate? Will it cause the tortoise any health issues? They are rather dusty and smell of Earthy decay.
I thought they were supposed to be odorless, as some pieces of the bark are indeed ordorless.

 

[Yvonne G]

The orchid bark that I've always found is made from fir. Also, the white stuff and musty smell tell me that your bag has gotten old and moldy. I wouldn't use it. Besides all that, the pieces are too big.

If you have an Orchard Supply Hardware in your town, that's where I buy mine. Its called "Wonderbark" and it comes in three grades, fine, medium and large. I buy the fine. I have seen other brands in plant nurseries that cater to the orchid people, and none of the other brands say anything besides "fir."

 

[egyptiandan]

You can always take those pieces out, but they shouldn't cause a problem. An earthy decay smell is good.

Danny

 

[ISTortoiseLover]

Hmmm, I bought a 40litre bag and I would say at least half of it was covered in the White powder. Oh man....

 

[Yvonne G]

If you want to use it, you can spread it out on a sheet of plastic or some such (outside) and hose it off. Leave it sitting in the sun for a while and the mold will die. Sun...you do have that, don't you? We haven't see "sun" for quite a few days here. FOG!!! Where are you located?

 

[ISTortoiseLover]

I think I'll swap the bag for a "fresh" one. Fingers crossed. I'll be sure to get the fine grade bag this time. The local largest flora/garden shops here in Singapore seem to carry one brand and type of tree bark, while others do not sell any bark at all unfortunately. Only brand I could fine are from Besgrow. Don't believe they have other variants that come from Fir trees. Fir trees are sorta related to he pine family though, that's what I gathered but still wish I had more choices.

 

[Balboa]

That's an iffy one. I see Tom's side of, why risk it? especially with radiated.

My practical side says, it should be fine. Even pine mulch once composted enough SHOULDN'T harm anything.

The idea with orchid bark is that it needs to be pure and toxin free, as orchids are highly sensitive (probably more so than torts). If orchids can grow in it, it SHOULD be safe for torts.

I'd probably ask some orchid growers if they know the product. If they say its junk and kills their orchids, get the heck rid of it!

The stuff I buy is "certified" by the orchid growers association, and is pure Douglas Fir. Its also spendy.

---

Just saw your pine/fir comment. Yes they're sorta related, but they have very different "known" toxicity levels. That being said there could be species of pine with lower toxicity levels than others.

I have often wondered about cypress. Its popular because its non-toxic and doesn't mold or attract bugs. How is this possible? It must have some kind of toxicity then, but perhaps it doesn't leach out like pine or cedar. (the toxicity of pine is also only really known as allergies in humans and animals to the dust, which begs the often asked question of whether or not it is harmful at all as a compost (partially decomposed and wetted) for animal substrates)

 

[ISTortoiseLover]

I've just dug up some info at besgrow's website. (www.besgrow.com)
Under Orchiata bark FAQs

Question:
There is white powder on my Orchiata

Answer:
This is dolomite (calcium magnesium) which we apply to Orchiata in the final stages of production. This is beneficial for your plant (see What is dolomite?); if you see this do not wash it out.
Dolomite is a natural mineral that contains calcium and magnesium. Research shows dolomite addition to substrates is very beneficial. We add dolomite to Orchiata to:
Stabilise the substrate by increasing the pH to within a range of 5.5 to 6.5
Prevent salt accumulation
Provide the minerals calcium and magnesium, essential for plant growth
The dolomite in Orchiata provides the plant with an initial start up supply of these two minerals. Growers must remember though that after a good length of time (around 9 months), dolomite will have broken down and growers must reapply dolomite or other liming compounds to maintain optimum plant growth.

Is dolomite (calcium magnesium) hazardous to tortoises?

 

[Maggie Cummings]

but perhaps it doesn't leach out like pine or cedar. (the toxicity of pine is also only really known as allergies in humans and animals to the dust, which begs the often asked question of whether or not it is harmful at all as a compost (partially decomposed and wetted) for animal substrates)


Balboa...i unknowingly bought a pine substrate some years ago and at that time I had 3 Sulcata yearlings, within a couple of days one was dead, one was blind and the third just getting sick. It took almost 3 years for the blind one to have one eye totally blind with diminished sight in the other. His corneas were burned from the toxicity from the pine, so some people may not believe pine is harmful, but I have personally experienced that it is terribly harmful to tortoises...

 

[ISTortoiseLover]

Anyone has any idea if Dolomite (calcium magnesium) is safe for tortoises? I think thats the white powder on the orchid bark that I bought.

Besgrow FAQs
Question:
There is white powder on my Orchiata

Answer:
This is dolomite (calcium magnesium) which we apply to Orchiata in the final stages of production. This is beneficial for your plant (see What is dolomite?); if you see this do not wash it out.
Dolomite is a natural mineral that contains calcium and magnesium. Research shows dolomite addition to substrates is very beneficial. We add dolomite to Orchiata to:
Stabilise the substrate by increasing the pH to within a range of 5.5 to 6.5
Prevent salt accumulation
Provide the minerals calcium and magnesium, essential for plant growth
The dolomite in Orchiata provides the plant with an initial start up supply of these two minerals. Growers must remember though that after a good length of time (around 9 months), dolomite will have broken down and growers must reapply dolomite or other liming compounds to maintain optimum plant growth.

 

[Balboa]

Dang Maggie, I know I've heard that story and it had slipped my mind, sorry. Out of curiousity what was the nature of the substrate? Was it more like dry wood chips or more "dirty". Was it kept wet or dry? I just ask because this is an important issue that needs resolving, (at least to me in my mind). To be honest from my experience there is no such thing as a totally safe wood, all are toxic to some degree, and I think processing makes a big difference as to the safety. Pine may be entirely too toxic to be safe ever, but the degree of reactivity revealed by its extreme nature can be enlightening.


Andrew, dolomite is a common (and basically natural) soil amendment. It is frequently added to agricultural soil to boost depleted calcium levels. I will be adding some (or a similiar amendment) to my tort food crop soils this spring. Since torts need calcium, I doubt it'll overly harm your torts, especially once it "washes down". Can't say that I know for sure though. In high enough concentrations anything can be harmful.

 

[ISTortoiseLover]

Thanks for clearing that up for me Balboa. I ditched the bag of "Orchid bark" and got me a bag of compost instead.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Balboa...as I recall it was pieces of wood chips mixed with chip dust (kinda like dirt) in the bag it was wet and smelled of forest. I also kept it wet for the humidity. I was a relatively new keeper and didn't know about the pine thing then.