Quick ?

[reticguy76]

What deciphers (or has deciphered) whether or not retpiles are affected by toxic plants (ones listed on these tort care sheets and diet recommendation sheets) ??

Has there been true extensive research and control testing with this ??

I have just seen so many plants/flowers that have been deemed toxic to us and our dog/cat friends that are on the do not eat tort list, but many people allow their torts to eat.

 

[StudentoftheReptile]

I think most of it is just what you said: plants that are known to be toxic to mammals (namely dogs, cats & humans, among others), so they are just automatically assumed to be toxic to everything else, including tortoises.

NO one has done any extensive study on it, probably because what is the point? Most studies are done with an agenda in mind, whether it be environmental or applicable in some industrial fashion, etc. Doing research just to determine what plants are toxic for tortoises and which are not would take lots of time, money and space.

The general way we find out is every so often, someone's tortoise (or other reptile) eats a big batch or whatever, and we find out by trial and error. If it kills over dead the next day or two, we do a necropsy and can determine and say yay or nay if the plant was the culprit. If they are fine, we can generally surmise that they can process it after all, and that plant gets pulled off the "bad" list!

 

[Madkins007]

There are only a relatively few things on the 'known bad for reptiles' list, but most of that comes from veterinarian reports rather than from any sort of studies (which would take some pretty significant bucks to do anywhere near right.)

The few known dangerous for reptiles plants include oak, ivys, foxglove, oleander, and tobacco (I think there are a few more that I am forgetting). There are almost certainly more out there that have not been reported in enough numbers to track well.

 

[reticguy76]

I get that,and agree with it. I guess, Im really asking, is the thought that if a tort eats a "toxic" plant, will it keel over and die in the first few days, or if the tort eats it, then dies a year later or something, could that be attributed to the toxic plant, in a torts body compared to a mammals body ??

 

[ascott]

is the thought that if a tort eats a "toxic" plant, will it keel over and die in the first few days, or if the tort eats it, then dies a year later or something,

Gosh, I wish there was some source out there that could answer this without question, you know?

I suppose the best we can do is to educate ourselves the best we can with what information we have available...as well as go with out gut on alot of things...I know that Oleander will kill rapidly...however I do not know the death rate for the others...I would "imagine" that the smaller, the younger, the weaker tort would have a much quicker demise after an encounter with a toxic item????? Again, one of those things that there is not a for sure on but just what I would imagine based on things I have learned in life...

Also, there are alot of folks that laugh at folks like myself who will not consume any greens or veggies or fruits that are not organic....I wish I would locate a source to only buy every item my son and myself eat as an organic item...there are pesticides in all of the items in the grocery produce isle (unless certified organic)...now, this is another of those things that no one can answer without question....but life has taught me that while you may not keel over dead from exposure to pesticides from produce items...there is nothing that convinces me that over prolonged period of time you will not have negative effects from the long tem pesticide consumption saturating your flesh and organs....therefore, all produce here is organic....

There just is not enough proof set in stone for anything in this area (your topic here)...many folks will say that they will not feed a huge variety of things to their torts for fear of a negative affect....I would not offer some of the "for sure" type items but there is no way that I know that all items that affect mammals will have a negative impact on a tort....

If you should ever locate a source that can lay claim to this and has records and reports to support their claim...then please, by all means share share share....

 

[reticguy76]

Well put. Its tough to put exactly what Im asking and curious about, in writing as opposed to talking.

Basically, if a plant is toxic to us, we eat it and generally will get sick, need our stomach lavaged, given charcoal, etc, pretty quickly in almost every case.

If a tortoise consumes a plant that is "thought" to be toxic, and he keels over in a few hours or a day or two, we can safely assume that the plant is toxic to torts (especially if you read others that have had their torts die by consuming the same plant at some point). However, if a tort consumes these plants "assumed" to be toxic, and they dont keel over at least within a few days, does that mean that the platn is NOT toxic to them, or simply that maybe their bodies handle it better, but they can and/or will die later down the road.

I assume most everybodys thought is (and has been) trial and error ??

 

[Jacqui]

To add more to the mix, some species seem to be able to eat things others can't. I go by trial and error myself, but I also look at what animal is it that will be exposed to this plant. As was said a smaller animal and a sick one will have more issues and sooner. An emys emys may eat a ton of plant B, yet it might kill a Egyptian tortoise. I look at how much or how likely this animal would eat this plant any how. Like I have never saw any of my hingebacks nibble even on plants in their enclosures, but my Russians would no doubt wipe the plant out in seconds. When I see somebody say they feed their tortoise some plant I question, I tend to follow up and ask how much did they eat, what species and what size was it.

It's just all guess work and crossed fingers.