questions about basking, will this be good enough?

[jjsull33]

I have been having a hell of a time getting the temps in my closed chamber to stabilize, and I think I found the solution. I have the basking spot on a timer and set it to come on periodically throughout the day. It comes on at 9:30 same as the uvb tube, but then I have it stay on for 30 min and then off for 60, then on for 30, off 60, etc. Is this ok? It's gettin the basking to the mid 90s where I want but it's not on long enough to heat the whole thing too much. Will this be ok? Or does she need a basking spot constantly throughout the day? I know I can get thermostat but that's not in the budget for a while, gotta make due with what I have for now.

 

[wellington]

That should work fine. Better to do a thermostat, but will work until then. However, if your basking light is a mvb, not sure if that would be good for the life of the bulb. Also, if you do get a thermostat, they cannot be used on MVB.

 

[jjsull33]

Nah the cage has a uvb 10.0 tube fixture and a che for basking.

 

[pfara]

From what I've read, redfoots don't necessarily need a basking spot. As long as you keep a reasonable ambient temp, I really wouldn't worry so much. Have you seen your guy(s) utilize the basking spot? If so, don't stress about the spot and just wait for a thermostat. Also, I think I've seen people post pretty good thermostats out there for decent prices.

Btw, what do you use for your basking spot anyway? In any case, a thermostat will definitely alleviate your unstable temps like a charm

 

[mikeh]

If you have a closed chamber and found just right time cycling of CHE to keep temps ideal, don't stress about the thermostat. Thermostat cycles your CHE just like your timer does but according to temperature, not timing.

What you have to watch for here is steady temps outside of chamber. If the temps outside of chamber are always the same as when you found the sweet spot you are ok, but if it raises let's say 10°F, your inside temp will raise 10+F. Opposite goes for lower temps.

sent from mobile device using TFO app

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Eventually get a thermostat

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[jjsull33]

Right now I have 2 che one on each end of the enclosure, the one on the cool side is on a thermostat set for 80-82, and the other is by the uvb is on the timer. When it was on th same timer as the uvb it was getting up to 120 by the end of the day. Now it's recorded as a max of 99 but only for a short time an only below the lamp, the cool side caps at 83 daily. So for now I'll try it this way and eventually I'll buy a thermostat an set it for 95 and hook it up to my timer again so during the day it will keep a basking spot constantly but I figure in a rainforest they may only get periodic spots through trees right? Haha.

 

[mainey34]

120 is way to hot. You should be trying for the 95. You probably wont be able to stabilize your temps with so many on and off cycles. How old is the tort we are talking about?

 

[Tom]

Thermostats are only $25.

A CHE does not make for a very good basking spot since there is no light. In my enclosures I use a CHE or two on a thermostat to maintain a background of 80 day and night, no matter what the weather is. Then I use a florescent tube on a timer to light the whole thing up for 12 hours a day. Lastly, I use a flood bulb of suitable wattage to get 12 hour lighted basking spot of about 100 degrees. If you wanted lower basking temps for a RF you could go with a lower wattage bulb, or raise the bulb up higher. During the day the basking bulb heats up the whole enclosure, so ambient climbs to the high 80s or low 90s each day, and the CHE just stays off all day. At night when the basking bulb is off, the CHE keeps temps from ever dropping too low.

 

[jjsull33]

No one lives there right now, I have to be sure it's all set before I put anyone in there, even if it takes weeks... It's been like a month now haha... It's pretty much stable right now, but I hadn't considered using something like a flood lamp for the basking spot, I bet a 60 watt bulb could do the trick, looks like I have something to try tomorrow. I have a Che on thermostat as you described already.

My next question is where are the 25$ thermostats? Haha I usually find them for much more, that's a good price though.

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Oh and the tort in question. That will be moving in is a redfoot that is 7-8 inches long, I've only had her a few months so age is unknown.

 

[Tom]

In my closed chambers I usually use a 65 watt flood. I have gone as low as a 35 for some applications.

Some thermostats found on a google search:
http://compare.ebay.com/like/140759751090?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar

http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog...ers/-/zilla-1000-watt-temperature-controller/

http://www.bigappleherp.com/BAH-1000-Thermostat

 

[jjsull33]

Thanks, money is tight this month, my quarterly student loans hit this month lol, but I should be able to afford a 65 watt flood bulb and I will try that today and know by the end of the week if we are set.

And thank you for the links, I always find them for the 45 that big apple is selling them at, have you used the one you posted from ebay?

 

[jjsull33]

Alright so I finally had enough for a spot, thank you for the advice on that over a che, made a world of difference. I got a 60 watt halogen spot, it is too hot an makin the basking spot 115-120, however the cool side is staying at 80 so I'm on the right track, now I just need to swap the 60 watt for a 40 watt and I bet that will do it.

As much as I hate this enclosure at this point, at least the rest will be easier to figure out haha.

 

[mainey34]

You could have just gone with a plane house hold light. The cheapest yet. You dont know that your redfoot will use a basking spot yet anyways. What size is your closed chamber?

 

[Madkins007]

Basking: Red-footeds, like any other tortoise, bask when they feel the need to. While some keepers have argued that they have never seen their red-footed's bask, most keepers in most of the US and Europe have seen this. Tortoises bask to warm up and/or recharge UV- which in the wild happens at the same time.

Red-footed tortoises ARE NOT primarily deep forest animals- although some are from the rainforests, probably 75-90% of them live outside the rainforest regions of South America. Most are found in savannahs and scrub forest regions. Even rainforest tortoises have been well-documented basking in lit openings, usually after a cloudy, rainy, or cooler period.

When you are designing the lighting and heating, however, think more in terms or 'thermoclines' than basking areas. Try to provide a warmer area for digestion and warming up, and a cooler area for hiding and resting. Ignore the people who claim that red-footeds don't need that- every piece of real evidence shows they do.

My favorite system is fairly cheap:
- A plain light bulb (or 2-3) at fairly low wattages (the smaller the tank, the lower the total wattage) set to run for about 12 hours a day (14 hours in the summer). Position near the warm end, or use a slightly higher wattage on the warm end. (The brighter light helps signal that this is the 'basking area'.)
- A long, low-output UVB bulb set to run for about 6-8 hours a day.
- A big ceramic heat emitter in the hot end set on a thermostat (Zoo Meds is cheap and reasonably reliable) for about 87ish. If the set-up keeps in the mid-70's overnight without it, turn this off at night.
- If needed, a smaller CHE in the middle or cool end to keep the low temps above about 78 in the day and 74 at night (don't sweat the actual numbers.) OR use heat cables or some other system to raise the overall temps a bit to 74-78ish.

Once this is running, you should not have to worry about it, and it is self-redundant- if any one item goes bad, things are OK until it can be replaced. It also allows a night-time cool off (without getting cold). The long UVB bulb is the only annoying part- it only lasts about 6 months reliably so if you let your guys outside at all in the summer, you would leave it off in the summer and get a new one for the winter season.

 

[mainey34]

Basking: Red-footeds, like any other tortoise, bask when they feel the need to. While some keepers have argued that they have never seen their red-footed's bask, most keepers in most of the US and Europe have seen this. Tortoises bask to warm up and/or recharge UV- which in the wild happens at the same time.

Red-footed tortoises ARE NOT primarily deep forest animals- although some are from the rainforests, probably 75-90% of them live outside the rainforest regions of South America. Most are found in savannahs and scrub forest regions. Even rainforest tortoises have been well-documented basking in lit openings, usually after a cloudy, rainy, or cooler period.

When you are designing the lighting and heating, however, think more in terms or 'thermoclines' than basking areas. Try to provide a warmer area for digestion and warming up, and a cooler area for hiding and resting. Ignore the people who claim that red-footeds don't need that- every piece of real evidence shows they do.

My favorite system is fairly cheap:
- A plain light bulb (or 2-3) at fairly low wattages (the smaller the tank, the lower the total wattage) set to run for about 12 hours a day (14 hours in the summer). Position near the warm end, or use a slightly higher wattage on the warm end. (The brighter light helps signal that this is the 'basking area'.)
- A long, low-output UVB bulb set to run for about 6-8 hours a day.
- A big ceramic heat emitter in the hot end set on a thermostat (Zoo Meds is cheap and reasonably reliable) for about 87ish. If the set-up keeps in the mid-70's overnight without it, turn this off at night.
- If needed, a smaller CHE in the middle or cool end to keep the low temps above about 78 in the day and 74 at night (don't sweat the actual numbers.) OR use heat cables or some other system to raise the overall temps a bit to 74-78ish.

Once this is running, you should not have to worry about it, and it is self-redundant- if any one item goes bad, things are OK until it can be replaced. It also allows a night-time cool off (without getting cold). The long UVB bulb is the only annoying part- it only lasts about 6 months reliably so if you let your guys outside at all in the summer, you would leave it off in the summer and get a new one for the winter season.

So, im not trying to start a debate here, but are you saying that anyone whom says that redfoots do not need ‘basking‘ areas are to be ignored?

 

[jjsull33]

The enclosure in question is 4x6, it worked well today, I watched the temps all day and the cool side stayed around 80 (78-82), the middle of the enclosure capped at 85 and under the basking spot I recorded 150!! tomorrow I will try the regular bulb, At least now it is keeping a temp gradient, before I made this thread it was all or nothing for heat haha.

I actually have seen my reds bask, it may not be as frequent as I see my russians but I see it so I was planning on having one in this new enclosure regardless.

 

[sunshine_hugs]

I'm not an expert, but I've also seen my redfoots bask. They are wild on the island where I live, and mine are all housed outside...I've noticed them bask on sunny mornings during rainy season. They tend to hide during the hot afternoons.

This is just my experience...and we actually live on the outskirts of a rainforest...so in my opinion, a basking spot wouldn't hurt.

 

[Madkins007]

(snip)
So, im not trying to start a debate here, but are you saying that anyone whom says that redfoots do not need ‘basking‘ areas are to be ignored?

Just because Keeper X has not seen his red-footeds bask just means he/she is either not paying attention, or that their tortoises have simply never felt the need for whatever reason.

It is true that red-footeds and some others do not bask in the classic 'sun worship' pose- head stretched up, limbs splayed, sitting in full view of full sunshine. However, one predator of red-footeds as well as many other species are birds of prey and the 'sun worship' pose is very vulnerable!

Much of the time, tortoises that like to hide, like the red-footed, seem to bask by just walking slowly in the sunshine, often skirting the edge of shadows. This may be a benefit of the darker skin- it warms quickly in the sun.

Part of the 'basking controversy' is the idea that some people claim that you can successfully raise a red-footed tortoise at one steady temperature. This is based on a couple of flawed theories- a.) they come from the rain forest where the temps do not very, and b.) if we had the right temp, they could perform all needed functions and activities.

A.) is just plain wrong for two important reasons. Most red-footed just plain do not come from rain forest areas. Also, there is a ton of temperature variation in a rain forest. Rain forests are full of microclimates and varying pressures, etc. We don't see dramatic changes, but it is inaccurate to claim it is 'all one temperture' as some have.

B.) shows a fundamental lack of understanding how ectothermic animals work. They select warmer and cooler areas to help with things like digestion (warmer), sleeping (cooler), mating (warmer), fight stress and illness (warmer), etc. Our body temps change based on what is going on inside- and so does a tortoises. The difference is we control ours to a large extent, they need to find the right temps to make it work.

We don't need a BIG thermocline- and in fact, the amount of variation we actually get is directly related to the size of the habitat- but if we can get about a 6-10 degree F difference or so, and maybe a bit more if you use night temp drops, then we are offering our tortoises the chance to find the temps they want.

Besides- it is easier to do a thermocline than to try to get an all-over even temp.

 

[Bryan]

I'm not an expert, but I've also seen my redfoots bask. They are wild on the island where I live, and mine are all housed outside...I've noticed them bask on sunny mornings during rainy season. They tend to hide during the hot afternoons.

This is just my experience...and we actually live on the outskirts of a rainforest...so in my opinion, a basking spot wouldn't hurt.

I second this experience, I keep mine outdoors all year and they do bask when they feel the need and they take cover when it's really hot out. It seems to me that the bigger ones are more likely to come out and eat a big meal when I feed them in the middle of the day than the smaller ones. Likely because they are bigger and it takes longer for their bodies to heat up in comparison to the smaller guys.

 

[sunshine_hugs]

Like Mark said, my redfoots basking is them slowly walking around in the sunshine (I've rarely seen them actually sitting still in the sun). And like Bryan mentioned, I do notice my bigger ones out in day the sun more than the smallest ones (although mine are all pretty small right now).

Also the temperature definitely does vary here...between rainy season, dry season, elevation, etc. Most of the wild tortoises spotted here are in the lower rainforest areas (this island is quite mountainous with a lot of rainforest).

Obviously Grenada is not the only island where redfoots are wild, and at some point in history, they were introduced here. What I write is strictly from my experience with my own redfooted tortoises and wild tortoises on the island (locally they're known as Muracoy / Morrocoy).