Proper Weight gain is....?

[llamas55]

Tommy Tortoise has a plastron 5 1/2 " and the SLC is about 6.25 and I weigh her mid month (today)...she is maybe just 3, don't really know. Anyhow she gains an oz. a month and is 1 # 14oz today

How does that compare to others? it is slow and steady, but is that a reasonable gain?

thanks, all

 

[Chewbecca]

Do people really pay much mind to the actual weight of a tortoise????
I thought length was what matters, or at least a growth in size?

I ask because I do not know.

 

[dreadyA]

Yeah its the same just with like geckos. its good to monitor just in case they are losing weight

 

[Chewbecca]

ah!
See, when I first got Stagger, I was weighing him ALL THE TIME.
But then I stopped.
Because I could tell he was growing. But he should be growing, he's only just a year old.

Thanks for the info!
Now I know.

 

[Madkins007]

6.25" is 15.88cm. Applying the Donoghue Ratio, we take it to the third power- 4004.53, then multiply by 0.191 to get 404.46, the estimated minimum weight in grams.

14oz=397gm, so Tommy may be a little underweight, which most often means a little dehydrated- but only by about 7 grams, which is only about a quarter ounce- well within simple measuring error range... but still close to the minimum weight expected.

Most tortoises grow slow at first, then rather rapidly (as far as tortoises can grow rapidly) to near-adulthood, then slow down again. (When you chart it, it makes a big letter 'S'.)

I really wish we could find a way to compile growth numbers to help create some sort of averaged chart to help people see if their animals are on-targer or not.

 

[terracolson]

6.25" is 15.88cm. Applying the Donoghue Ratio, we take it to the third power- 4004.53, then multiply by 0.191 to get 404.46, the estimated minimum weight in grams.

14oz=397gm, so Tommy may be a little underweight, which most often means a little dehydrated- but only by about 7 grams, which is only about a quarter ounce- well within simple measuring error range... but still close to the minimum weight expected.

Most tortoises grow slow at first, then rather rapidly (as far as tortoises can grow rapidly) to near-adulthood, then slow down again. (When you chart it, it makes a big letter 'S'.)

I really wish we could find a way to compile growth numbers to help create some sort of averaged chart to help people see if their animals are on-targer or not.

WTF? lol... i so got lost on that one.....

I have been weighing my hatchlings... when does it become apparent they could be underweight? how many months?

Mine are currently still under 40 grams

 

[Meg90]

Here's two excerpts from Novalee, and Anouk's growth records. They are Greeks, but this will show you a pattern of how two different tortoises gained.

Novalee:
08/30/09—Hatchling measured 2” SCL and weighed 29 grams at 1 month and five days old
09/25/09—Novalee measured 2 1/8” SCL and weighed 35 grams at 2 months old
10/25/09—Novalee measured 2 3/8” SCL and weighed 51 grams at 3 months old
11/25/09—Novalee measured 2 5/8” SCL and weighed 66 grams at 4 months old
01/04/10—Novalee measured 3 1/16” SCL and weighed 85 grams at 5 months and 10 days old
01/25/10—Novalee measured 3 1/4” SCL and weighed 110 grams at 6 months old

Anouk:
03/26/09—Hatchling measured: 2 5/16” SCL and weighed 49 grams, Age: 6 months and 2 days old
04/28/09—Anouk measured: 2 9/16” SCL and weighed 57 grams, Age 7 months and 4 days old
05/24/09—Anouk measured 2 3/4” SCL and weighed 78 grams, Age 8 months and 0 days old
06/24/09—Anouk measured 3 1/16” SCL and weighed 94 grams at 9 months and 0 days old
07/24/09—Anouk measured 3 5/16” SCL and weighed 114 grams at 10 months and 0 days old
08/24/09—Anouk measured 3 1/2" SCL and weighed 149 grams at 11 months and 0 days old
09/25/09—Anouk measured 3 12/16” SCL and weighed 174 grams at 1 year and 1 day old
10/25/09—Anouk measured 3 12/16” SCL and weighed 186 grams at 13 months and one day old
11/24/09—Anouk measured 3 13/16” SCL and weighed 196 grams at 14 months old
01/04/10—Anouk measured 4 1/16” SCL and weighed 233 grams at 15 months and 11 days old
01/25/10—Anouk measured 4 3/16” SCL and weighed 255 grams at 16 months and 1 day old

I measure monthly, on the same day, before feeding. There is always more than 10g gained each month.

 

[terracolson]

I never thought of measuring the shell monthly, granted i haven't had a month yet

 

[Meg90]

You should measure monthly---its awesome to track their growth like that!

 

[Madkins007]

The Donoghue Ratio was invented by a reptile nutrition expert, Dr. Susan Donoghue, to help predict if a tortoise is underweight, and therefore probably dehydrated.

According to people like Mike Pingleton, it works for most tortoises, although not as well for very young ones.

To use the ratio, take the length in centimeters to the third power, then multiply that by 0.191 to get the minimum expected weight in grams.

Or: LENGTHcm^3 x 0.191 = WEIGHTgr.

By the way- if you can, I would really suggest using metric for length and weight- it is more accurate and easier to work with in a lot of ways. It also lets you chart length and weight on one chart if you want to go really geeky . Just put the date on the bottom and numbers up the side and make one line where the numbers are weight in grams or kilograms, and the other is length in centimeters. You can watch them both grow over time!

 

[terryo]

Mark, I don't understand one thing you're saying. I'm lucky I made it out of High School. Maybe you could figure out if Pio is the right size and weight for his age.
I wish I could use metric, but I never learned and it's too late now.
Pio is 2 years and 7 months (31 mo.'s) and is 1 lb. 10 0z and 6 in.
I'm wondering if that's OK for his age.

 

[31drew31]

According to The Donoghue Ratio you tort should weigh 676 grams.

I just calculated what my torts should be, and my females is underweight by about 90 grams, and my male is about 150 grams overweight. Both are redfoots and my female is 7.75" and 1380 grams and my male is 8" and 1600 grams. Both torts are fed the same diet, live in the same conditions, and the female actually eats much more than the male. Now the male is much bulkier everywhere, which is the case with most animals. When you take the average of the two, they end up right on par with The Donoghue Ratio. I think his formula is more of something to refer to, not to strive for.

 

[llamas55]

Mark, I don't understand one thing you're saying. I'm lucky I made it out of High School. Maybe you could figure out if Pio is the right size and weight for his age.
I wish I could use metric, but I never learned and it's too late now.
Pio is 2 years and 7 months (31 mo.'s) and is 1 lb. 10 0z and 6 in.
I'm wondering if that's OK for his age.

ah, finally a simple answer I can relate to: since Tommy is 6.25 straight line top shell, and 1 # 14 oz we're in the ball park.
Way back when I used the formula and came within I think .1% error.
glad ours are about the same size, weight, and age. thanks

 

[Madkins007]

Mark, I don't understand one thing you're saying. I'm lucky I made it out of High School. Maybe you could figure out if Pio is the right size and weight for his age.
I wish I could use metric, but I never learned and it's too late now.
Pio is 2 years and 7 months (31 mo.'s) and is 1 lb. 10 0z and 6 in.
I'm wondering if that's OK for his age.

Heck, I just use Google to do the conversions.

6"=15.24cm
15.24 to the third power is 3540
3540 x 0.191 is 674- your target weight in grams.

1lb 10 oz is 26 ounces is 737 grams, so you are well above the target.

Llamas 'Tommy' is about the same length but a lot lighter (14 ounces to 26 ounces).

---

According to The Donoghue Ratio you tort should weigh 676 grams.

I just calculated what my torts should be, and my females is underweight by about 90 grams, and my male is about 150 grams overweight. Both are redfoots and my female is 7.75" and 1380 grams and my male is 8" and 1600 grams. Both torts are fed the same diet, live in the same conditions, and the female actually eats much more than the male. Now the male is much bulkier everywhere, which is the case with most animals. When you take the average of the two, they end up right on par with The Donoghue Ratio. I think his formula is more of something to refer to, not to strive for.

90 grams is only 3 ounces- not a lot.

The thing about the Donoghue Ratio is that dehydration is a MAJOR problem with captive tortoises, and these numbers help show a risk in the very early stages when it can be corrected by something as simple as misting the food.

You say both torts are getting the same diet, but it is my experience that the bigger tortoise ALWAYS gets the larger share of the better food, and that smaller torts tend to be more active. I would not worry about 3 ounces a lot, but I would be thinking about taking steps in case it gets worse. If you have kept records for the last several months, you can backtrack and see if it is getting better or worse.

 

[terryo]

Heck, I just use Google to do the conversions.

6"=15.24cm
15.24 to the third power is 3540
3540 x 0.191 is 674- your target weight in grams.

1lb 10 oz is 26 ounces is 737 grams, so you are well above the target.

Llamas 'Tommy' is about the same length but a lot lighter (14 ounces to 26 ounces).


Mark, does that mean that Pio is overweight?

 

[terracolson]

can i get help?

 

[Madkins007]

Mark, does that mean that Pio is overweight?

If he can pull completely in, I would not worry about being overweight.

---

can i get help?

I'll be glad to run the numbers for anyone who needs help. I know someone could program Excel or something to do this automatically, which would be a great feature in a logging spreadsheet.

 

[31drew31]

I just came across this again, and was bored so made up a little excel worksheet. Very simple, but does the trick!

Ive attached it to my post, but if for some reason it doesnt work, send me a PM with your email and Ill get it to you right away.

I just looked and dont think it attached properly, if someone can tell me how to do it that would be great.

Andrew.