Please Help! Problems with my lil Tori! (Sorry it's long :/ )

[Phxmema]

Hi, about a year ago our mail lady found a little leopard tortoise on her mail route and went around looking for her owner in a few days she couldn't find it and there were no flyers looking for her. We aren't sure on the sex but we call her tori! My mom did research but got a lot of mixed answers on feeding and we finally found your forum which has been extremely helpful. We also got mixed reviews on what kind it was but the vet said leopard. He thought she was about 2 years old. My mom was originally feeding her a good amount of fruit. I didn't think it was right and looked it up and found I was right so we cut fruit out a few months ago. She mostly eats a lot of grass and weeds and loves succulents and honey suckles. She mostly just grazes every day some days not eating much and some days seeming to eat a lot but with the grass and weeds we can't fully tell how much and if it's a proper amount. We bathe her almost every days sometimes skipping a day or two. Always warm water and that's usually when she poops and lets out hard white stuff which we read is her pee.

My Concerns:

• How much should she be eating. Do u have any other recommendations on what she should eat we have heard that staying away from grocery foods is good.
• How old do you think she is or is she proper size for a three year old leopard my mom measured the arch or her shell with a soft measuring tape and said it is 5" is that appropriate for her age? I'll post a pick of her from today and I put a pen next to her to get a better idea on exact size.
• I know they are suppose to be relatively smooth shelled and her shell hasn't changed since we got her but it's a little bumpy but not drastic that I think. Since it is not progressing and pyramiding is there a way to help reverse it or do leopards at this age look like the pic bellow.

My Biggest Concern:

• We have been keeping a close eye on her one of us is outside in view of her most of the day. And we have been really worried because she always poops in her warm bath but the past two weeks there was no poop! We are worried, we thought maybe she is just going somewhere other than her bath but today we left the house for an hour or so and came to a big long seemingly hard and sticky poop left on the patio. Since we found this forum we are working on an in closure but she usually just wanders around the whole yard she is pretty fast and goes on missions lol. She seems happy with it tho! Any way back to the poop! It had to hurt her as it was almost the length of her shell not including the arch. It also seems very hard and close up looks sticky. Nothing about her diet or bathing or surroundings has changed so we don't know why this would happen? Please HELP!

Here is the pic of her next to a pen and the poop next to a regular size bic lighter: other than the first they are from today.
(This one is probably close to six months ago but it's a better view of the pyramiding)
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/1/s/?view=att&th=14dd9bd730c2dcfa&attid=0.1&disp=attd&safe=1&zw
(She is a lil shy in the one below cuz I had just moved her)
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/1/s/?view=att&th=14dd9bf467bec211&attid=0.1&disp=attd&safe=1&zw

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/1/s/?view=att&th=14dd9bf467bec211&attid=0.3&disp=attd&safe=1&zw

I apologize that this is so long I just love my Tori and want her healthy any help is appreciated!

 

[teresaf]

I don't know why but I cant get the pictures. 5 inches curved length sounds like a baby. My 3.75 year old leopard is 11 straight line inches. We measure torts from the back of the shell to the front(not including the curves). see picture below. He's slightly big for his age but 5" is way to small. If he is a leo he's probably a year or so tops. dandelion greens, opuntia cactus pads(spinless for our comfort) and softened mazuri(original brand not LS-see pic) are my leos favs. If she/he is a babe(no pics) need to make sure she doesn't get below 80 degrees. Higher Humidity will stop the pyramiding but with humididy you have the risk of respiratory infections. To combat the RI's you NEED to keep temps up above 80 round the clock.

 

[Tom]

Hello and welcome.

Your questions:
1. How much food? They all have different appetites and they all live in different environments and temperatures. Your situation is ideal where they can wander and graze all day.
2. The only way to know the age is by knowing the hatch date. There is no way to tell by looking.
3. I use tinypic.com to post pics. Give that a try and then we can share our thoughts on the bumpiness.
4. Step up the warm soaks. I'd go every day for a few weeks.

These might help:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/how-to-raise-a-healthy-sulcata-or-leopard-version-2-0.79895/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

Here are some feeding suggestions. It was written for sulcatas, so just use less emphasis on grass for leopards.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/for-those-who-have-a-young-sulcata.76744/

 

[teresaf]

So @Tom do you think they may have a baby? Curved length is 5" so it's probably only 4-4.5" long. I agree that you probably can't tell exact age but does it hurt to treat it like a baby if it's 2yrs old just in case? Don't you think it most likely is? You know more than me on this. I'm still learning.

 

[Carol S]

If she is passing hard white stuff in her pee (urates) she needs to be soaked more often. If a tortoise is well hydrated the urates should look like stringy slightly cooked egg white or toothpaste. Sometimes you will not even be able to see urates in their pee which shows they are super well hydrated. Do you have a shallow terra cotta saucer where she can drink and self soak during the day? Sink the saucer into the dirt so she does not have to climb into it and possibly flip over and drown.

 

[Jodie]

Welcome to the forum. You have already received good advice. The size of the poo does not sound that alarming to me. I would get a fecal done since she was fed so much fruit for a while. That increases their chances of worms. The hard urates though is alarming. A well hydrated tortoise will have no urates or creamy, like toothpaste consistency, as stated above.

 

[teresaf]

Welcome to the forum. You have already received good advice. The size of the poo does not sound that alarming to me. I would get a fecal done since she was fed so much fruit for a while. That increases their chances of worms. The hard urates though is alarming. A well hydrated tortoise will have no urates or creamy, like toothpaste consistency, as stated above.

good, I was wondering why i hadn't seen this yet...LOL

 

[Tom]

So @Tom do you think they may have a baby? Curved length is 5" so it's probably only 4-4.5" long. I agree that you probably can't tell exact age but does it hurt to treat it like a baby if it's 2yrs old just in case? Don't you think it most likely is? You know more than me on this. I'm still learning.

I've seen 6 year old leopards that were 3" long. Not exaggerating and the people had had it for that long, so they knew it was at least 6. At the other extreme, I've seen 5" leopards that were 9 months old.

There are just too many variables. At 4-5 inches, I would guess a "normal" leopard was 1 or 2 years old, but in this case my guess would be wrong because we know this one is older. Keeping them outside a lot slows the growth way down. Keeping them outside a lot in a dry climate slows them down even more.

 

[Phxmema]

Welcome to the forum. You have already received good advice. The size of the poo does not sound that alarming to me. I would get a fecal done since she was fed so much fruit for a while. That increases their chances of worms. The hard urates though is alarming. A well hydrated tortoise will have no urates or creamy, like toothpaste consistency, as stated above.

So I'm not the one that usually soaks her my mom is and I guess when she wasn't soaking her as much cuz she read something that said only once to a few times a week was when it was hard and white now she says it's lime what you say. Since it's "technically" hers lol she likes to do the baths and thank you for letting me know about the worms we haven't had any problems with her poop until now and it's been 3 months since fruit has been in her diet. Thank you for helping out!

 

[Phxmema]

I've seen 6 year old leopards that were 3" long. Not exaggerating and the people had had it for that long, so they knew it was at least 6. At the other extreme, I've seen 5" leopards that were 9 months old.

There are just too many variables. At 4-5 inches, I would guess a "normal" leopard was 1 or 2 years old, but in this case my guess would be wrong because we know this one is older. Keeping them outside a lot slows the growth way down. Keeping them outside a lot in a dry climate slows them down even more.

We have had her for only about a year probably to date but I was an hour a half away at that time and didn't really see her. The vet was not specialized on tortoises I assume I was not the one that took her. So it's very possible that it's just over a year but I don't think it was soft anywhere, aren't babies a little softer? Again I never felt her at that time.we do live in Arizona so it is pretty dry most the time right now it is humid and 90 degrees outside tho. We'll look into trying to figure something out for her that will better her growth she just loves being outside and exploring around. I don't want he unhappy with her surrounding and it's how she gets most of her food cuz she doesn't eat when we give her the pellet tortoise food.

 

[Phxmema]

So I'm not the one that usually soaks her my mom is and I guess when she wasn't soaking her as much cuz she read something that said only once to a few times a week was when it was hard and white now she says it's lime what you say. Since it's "technically" hers lol she likes to do the baths and thank you for letting me know about the worms we haven't had any problems with her poop until now and it's been 3 months since fruit has been in her diet. Thank you for helping out!

Oh and she is bathed every day now there's only been one day we have missed in the past two and a half weeks and we've been doing that since I researched about the fruit and found this forum. You guys have been extremely helpful and I'm glad I found you.

 

[Phxmema]

If she is passing hard white stuff in her pee (urates) she needs to be soaked more often. If a tortoise is well hydrated the urates should look like stringy slightly cooked egg white or toothpaste. Sometimes you will not even be able to see urates in their pee which shows they are super well hydrated. Do you have a shallow terra cotta saucer where she can drink and self soak during the day? Sink the saucer into the dirt so she does not have to climb into it and possibly flip over and drown.

It is not white and hard anymore I guess my mom said that quit when I read they needed to be soaked everyday when I read about not feeding them fruit. We do not have a terra cotta saucer but I just looked them up and ordered her one because of how small she is and we didn't think of putting it in the ground we were worried about her flipping or drowning. We do put a small paper plate out that the edges are very low and but I think it's still hard for her to get in. I'm excited about the saucer tho that's a great idea putting it in the ground! Thank you so much!

 

[Tom]

We have had her for only about a year probably to date but I was an hour a half away at that time and didn't really see her. The vet was not specialized on tortoises I assume I was not the one that took her. So it's very possible that it's just over a year but I don't think it was soft anywhere, aren't babies a little softer? Again I never felt her at that time.we do live in Arizona so it is pretty dry most the time right now it is humid and 90 degrees outside tho. We'll look into trying to figure something out for her that will better her growth she just loves being outside and exploring around. I don't want he unhappy with her surrounding and it's how she gets most of her food cuz she doesn't eat when we give her the pellet tortoise food.

Outside all day is probably fine now that she is this size. It just makes little babies grow much slower than their siblings that are housed mostly indoors with only brief daily excursions outside each day.

Sounds to me like all is good there.

Do you have a heated night house? Here are some examples:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/my-best-night-box-design-yet.66867/

 

[Phxmema]

Outside all day is probably fine now that she is this size. It just makes little babies grow much slower than their siblings that are housed mostly indoors with only brief daily excursions outside each day.

Sounds to me like all is good there.

Do you have a heated night house? Here are some examples:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/my-best-night-box-design-yet.66867/

We definitely don't have a heated night box like those we need to make a bigger one as ours is pretty small don't know exact measurements it is heated but we don't have a thermostat or humidity in there so will definitely step up our night box for our little girl. Thank you! Do you think since we have one and she is probably 4inches that it has to be as big as those? Or how big do u think it should be?

 

[Tom]

We definitely don't have a heated night box like those we need to make a bigger one as ours is pretty small don't know exact measurements it is heated but we don't have a thermostat or humidity in there so will definitely step up our night box for our little girl. Thank you! Do you think since we have one and she is probably 4inches that it has to be as big as those? Or how big do u think it should be?

Those are made for sulcatas and big South African leopards. You definitely don't need one that big for a single small leopard.

Here is one I made for russians which are much smaller.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/semi-underground-russian-box.98590/

Smaller boxes are better for smaller tortoises. As long as your tortoise fits inside, its big enough. How are you heating it? You should definitely invest in a thermostat. That way it will always be warm enough, but never too hot. I think the water tubs are a good idea in dry climates like ours. I wouldn't use the water tubs in South FL or New Orleans.

 

[teresaf]

We have had her for only about a year probably to date but I was an hour a half away at that time and didn't really see her. The vet was not specialized on tortoises I assume I was not the one that took her. So it's very possible that it's just over a year but I don't think it was soft anywhere, aren't babies a little softer? Again I never felt her at that time.we do live in Arizona so it is pretty dry most the time right now it is humid and 90 degrees outside tho. We'll look into trying to figure something out for her that will better her growth she just loves being outside and exploring around. I don't want he unhappy with her surrounding and it's how she gets most of her food cuz she doesn't eat when we give her the pellet tortoise food.

You can go pull up food from the yard on bad days. Softened mazuri is great mixed in with what she normally eats.

 

[Phxmema]

Those are made for sulcatas and big South African leopards. You definitely don't need one that big for a single small leopard.

Here is one I made for russians which are much smaller.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/semi-underground-russian-box.98590/

Smaller boxes are better for smaller tortoises. As long as your tortoise fits inside, its big enough. How are you heating it? You should definitely invest in a thermostat. That way it will always be warm enough, but never too hot. I think the water tubs are a good idea in dry climates like ours. I wouldn't use the water tubs in South FL or New Orleans.

we have a heating lamp but i dont know what kind i was not living here when she got everything. but thank you for the ideas very helpful i am going to look into getting Tori a better set up right away!

 

[Tom]

we have a heating lamp but i dont know what kind i was not living here when she got everything. but thank you for the ideas very helpful i am going to look into getting Tori a better set up right away!

Heat bulbs in outdoor boxes tend to slow burn the very top of the carapace. Check the temperature there carefully. I much prefer radiant heat panels over head because they spread the heat out over a greater area. Kane heat mats work well on the bottom for me. Its all in that thread...

 

[Phxmema]

Here are the pics thanks to the tinypic.com recommendation. thanks guys sorry they are big i just pressed default size. this can help you better understand.

this is 9 months ago best pic of the pyramiding.

this is the pic today of how big she is compared to a pen

this is the poop pic

 

[Phxmema]

Heat bulbs in outdoor boxes tend to slow burn the very top of the carapace. Check the temperature there carefully. I much prefer radiant heat panels over head because they spread the heat out over a greater area. Kane heat mats work well on the bottom for me. Its all in that thread...

ok we will look into those right away i want to look at different enclosures and night boxes before making my decision and ordering stuff tho.