Platy articles-Hatchling weights

PA2019

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Does anyone know of journal articles citing platy hatchling weights or growth trends over time?

An individual is stating that a CB 6 year-old Burmese star weighing 120 grams is not abnormal, and mirrors growth patterns seen in the wild. I fervently disagree with this, but would love some actual data to support my personal opinion.
 

Tom

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I don't have your answer for platynota, but I believe the stats for growth in the wild. I've seen similar stats for other species over the years. Here is the problem: Conditions in the wild are not survivable for the vast majority of babies that hatch. Studies have shown 300-1000 die for every one that makes it to maturity. Life in the wild is very difficult for any wild animal and especially for babies. They are fighting disease, parasites, predators, unfavorable weather, difficult seasonal changes like drought, etc... Its no surprise that little babies don't grow much. Most of them don't survive at all, much less thrive. This is a case where I don't think attempting to emulate this aspect of life in the wild is a good idea. I think we should attempt to figure out what conditions are "best" for a given species in the wild and attempt to duplicate that in our captive environments. How do we know what is "best". Years and years of trying different methods with a variety of species, and looking at the results of other tortoise keepers from all over the world who have also done the same. None of this is "black and white". Opinions abound and experiences will vary. I look to people like @Will @zovick @Markw84 @Neal @Yvonne G @Anyfoot @Sterant @kingsley and SOOOOOOOO many others who have an open mind, a tendency toward scientific data comparison, and a zeal for learning the truth and figuring out new things. I look at results from people like @Bee62 in Germany and so many other people from all over the globe, compare that info with my own experiments and results, and begin to see the trends for what works and what doesn't. Then, I try my own experiments with what I see and learn from others to see how well it does or doesn't work for me in my own circumstances. I then share these experiments and results with other tortoise keepers and they share theirs with me. Knowledge advances. New tidbits are learned over time and we get higher success rates and better results. Then we get to fight and argue with people who keep parroting the same old wrong info that we've all been reading for decades, but that's another story for another thread...

My baby platynota raised in monsoon type conditions with daily soaks and a weedy, grassy, highly varied diet are reaching 100-140 grams in one year. I am not trying to grow them fast, and I'm not trying to grow them slow. I am trying to grow them as healthy as I possibly can and I don't care what the "rate" of growth is.
 

PA2019

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I don't have your answer for platynota, but I believe the stats for growth in the wild. I've seen similar stats for other species over the years. Here is the problem: Conditions in the wild are not survivable for the vast majority of babies that hatch. Studies have shown 300-1000 die for every one that makes it to maturity. Life in the wild is very difficult for any wild animal and especially for babies. They are fighting disease, parasites, predators, unfavorable weather, difficult seasonal changes like drought, etc... Its no surprise that little babies don't grow much. Most of them don't survive at all, much less thrive. This is a case where I don't think attempting to emulate this aspect of life in the wild is a good idea. I think we should attempt to figure out what conditions are "best" for a given species in the wild and attempt to duplicate that in our captive environments. How do we know what is "best". Years and years of trying different methods with a variety of species, and looking at the results of other tortoise keepers from all over the world who have also done the same. None of this is "black and white". Opinions abound and experiences will vary. I look to people like @Will @zovick @Markw84 @Neal @Yvonne G @Anyfoot @Sterant @kingsley and SOOOOOOOO many others who have an open mind, a tendency toward scientific data comparison, and a zeal for learning the truth and figuring out new things. I look at results from people like @Bee62 in Germany and so many other people from all over the globe, compare that info with my own experiments and results, and begin to see the trends for what works and what doesn't. Then, I try my own experiments with what I see and learn from others to see how well it does or doesn't work for me in my own circumstances. I then share these experiments and results with other tortoise keepers and they share theirs with me. Knowledge advances. New tidbits are learned over time and we get higher success rates and better results. Then we get to fight and argue with people who keep parroting the same old wrong info that we've all been reading for decades, but that's another story for another thread...

My baby platynota raised in monsoon type conditions with daily soaks and a weedy, grassy, highly varied diet are reaching 100-140 grams in one year. I am not trying to grow them fast, and I'm not trying to grow them slow. I am trying to grow them as healthy as I possibly can and I don't care what the "rate" of growth is.

Wise words Tom. With hatchling attrition rates as high as you are indicating, I doubt there are many studies which are able to follow a large enough hatchling population in the wild to be statistically meaningful for determining a prototypical hatchling growth curve.
 

Tom

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Wise words Tom. With hatchling attrition rates as high as you are indicating, I doubt there are many studies which are able to follow a large enough hatchling population in the wild to be statistically meaningful for determining a prototypical hatchling growth curve.
Good point.

Also, in captive environments growth can vary tremendously by how much time they spend outside, hydration levels, and what food is fed to them. As an example, there are people whose sulcata babies don't make it to 100 grams in their first year, compared to some other people's sulcatas that are nearly 1500 grams by the one year mark.
 

Markw84

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Wise words Tom. With hatchling attrition rates as high as you are indicating, I doubt there are many studies which are able to follow a large enough hatchling population in the wild to be statistically meaningful for determining a prototypical hatchling growth curve.
I am in touch, fairly regularly, with the park warden for the wildlife sanctuary in Mayanmar that has the largest population of G platynota in the world. As of Jan this year she said she has 3170 platynota there she oversees.

I have asked her if she has any weights and growth info on the stars she monitors. Both ones kept in pens and ones that are more "wild". Let's see if she responds. She does pretty well with English, but sometimes it seems communication is a bit lacking in the translations.
 
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