AND...I'm not sure because I don't know about rodent nerve systems, but its gotta' be pretty agonizing to be bleeding to death from the inside out after eating rodent poison, no?
Pinky mice
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jblayza said:
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against feeding animals to pets. Or actually I am (its more a personal value, "I love animals" vs "I love MY animals" so its not something I'd debate about), but I'm not against others doing it. I just don't think feeding them live or any ways that would cause extreme pain to the prey is the best option.
emysemys said:
Well there are different types of poisons I guess. But if the effect of the poison was to cause bleeding from inside out, then mice rodents would feel it. If you mean on pinkies, then they shouldn't even if poisoned. What causes pain isn't the bleeding, but the physical effect that happens due to the poison that causes pain. Without nerve cells, there won't be pain. Nociceptors has been found to be the cause of pain interpretation and they develope in the later stages of neurogenesis. So I think pinkies probably won't feel pain.
emysemys said:
That reminds me of a show on the discover channel that followed around this exterminator/pest removal company, and on one of the episodes they were called into a house that had a rodent infestation, but was owned by three vegans who didn't want the exterminator to kill the rodents (just trap them and "relocate" them)--which drove him insane (he kept asking them to reconsider)! lol
When I was a volunteer at a local nature center, I always thought it was absolutely hilarious how visitors would see the display of field mice and go "OH YUCK! GROSS!", then (on the rare occasions it happened during visiting hours) would see us feed the snakes the live baby mice and they would go "Oh, the poor mice!"
There is a HUGE emotional element in this debate that is so strong, so deep rooted that it will overwhelm most of the discussion- and that is OK as long we respect each other.
I love to offer my Red-foots small rodents as food, and would do live if I had better access to them- but that is OK because they love F/T just about as much. On the other hand, there are other good options as well- and Red-foots do not really seem to NEED a lot of animal/insect protein.
There is a HUGE emotional element in this debate that is so strong, so deep rooted that it will overwhelm most of the discussion- and that is OK as long we respect each other.
I love to offer my Red-foots small rodents as food, and would do live if I had better access to them- but that is OK because they love F/T just about as much. On the other hand, there are other good options as well- and Red-foots do not really seem to NEED a lot of animal/insect protein.
You guys debate very well. Impressive point defense on both sides. Good stuff!
I've created a monster! Ha!
Roachman26 said:
I love these kinds of threads, lots of great info and opinions. Just so everyone knows, theres no hard feelings towards anyone and I hope i haven't offended anyone. Debatable topics are great long as no one gets outta hand.
ChiKat said:
I know someone whose bearded dragon killed a baby russian tortoise trying to eat it
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I enjoy Internet debates alot more, it's so much friendlier. I used to be on the debate team and the environment is pretty harsh lol. You'd be surprised how much crap talking there is afterwards
fifthdawn said:
Lol, I can only imagine!
I know I'm late but, what do you do when a mouse invades your home? Do you set up traps? Or do would you let it be &reproduce pinkies?
If you set up traps....that's cruel, right?
I wouldn't touch a pinkie simply because I know I wouldn't like the texture of smooth mouse... :x
(Directed to the ones against pinkies )
If you set up traps....that's cruel, right?
I wouldn't touch a pinkie simply because I know I wouldn't like the texture of smooth mouse... :x
(Directed to the ones against pinkies )
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Undet most situations, there are usually very human alternatives beside poison and traps. If were being realistic there probably wouldn't be more than 5 mice per invasion. I've only has mice in one of my home and there were 3 at most.
What we did was find out where they're coming in from and sealed the hole. Otherwise traps and poison are just temporary solution. Luckily for me, when the hole was sealed they never appeared again. Hypothetically, if that didn't work, there are mouse traps that captures mice without killing them, then seal the hole.
If a stray dog keeps coming to your yard, would you kill it or seal it off so it can't come in? You see when we use cute dogs as example instead of stinky rats, the solution seems much more obvious.
What we did was find out where they're coming in from and sealed the hole. Otherwise traps and poison are just temporary solution. Luckily for me, when the hole was sealed they never appeared again. Hypothetically, if that didn't work, there are mouse traps that captures mice without killing them, then seal the hole.
If a stray dog keeps coming to your yard, would you kill it or seal it off so it can't come in? You see when we use cute dogs as example instead of stinky rats, the solution seems much more obvious.
Once while under the influence of LSD, my tortoises imparted some valuable lessons to me.
They told me that we're all equals, that all life is connected through energy. When one form of energy consumes another, life only ends in the eye of the beholder. The energy is still there. The energy will always be there. Plants are actually the highest form of existence in this plane, so if you're going to feel bad allowing your tortoise to transform a certain form of energy, you should feel more sorrow for the leafy green than the pinkie mouse.
Both life and death are meant to be celebrated equally.
I apologize if being under the influence somehow invalidates my opinions on life. Yes, I said opinion. No, I can't scientifically prove anything.
They told me that we're all equals, that all life is connected through energy. When one form of energy consumes another, life only ends in the eye of the beholder. The energy is still there. The energy will always be there. Plants are actually the highest form of existence in this plane, so if you're going to feel bad allowing your tortoise to transform a certain form of energy, you should feel more sorrow for the leafy green than the pinkie mouse.
Both life and death are meant to be celebrated equally.
I apologize if being under the influence somehow invalidates my opinions on life. Yes, I said opinion. No, I can't scientifically prove anything.
Sorry to contradict you, but closing up one mouse hole isn't going to keep the mice out. They can flatten their skulls and squeeze through the smallest opening. If you close up one hole, they'll find another. You usually don't realize you have a mouse problem until the first time you actually see one. Once you see one that means there are several more that you haven't seen.
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No wonder LSD is illegal. My friend was on LSD once and had similar thoughts. He said we should all just resortt to canibalism, afterall there's no morals and suffering. Everything is just energy. We should slaughter our mother and father. There's no reason not to, just a eternal chain of energy. We should kick 3 year olds and trip elderly and consume them when they're down. Don't worry, the energy is still there. Come to think of it, I think he had the same dealer.
@emy
It was only from my experience and it worked for me. I can understand that it seems weird of me to not use traps or poison especially when majority does. If given the choice to rid the mice harmlessly, wouldn't you choose that option? Of course that option isn't always available and we act on what is convenient but what we do and what we should do isn't the same. There are times when we know we should help someone in need but we don't. But what we do and what is right isn't always the same. What I'm simply arguing is that the right thing to do is whatever causes the least pain to these living things.
@emy
It was only from my experience and it worked for me. I can understand that it seems weird of me to not use traps or poison especially when majority does. If given the choice to rid the mice harmlessly, wouldn't you choose that option? Of course that option isn't always available and we act on what is convenient but what we do and what we should do isn't the same. There are times when we know we should help someone in need but we don't. But what we do and what is right isn't always the same. What I'm simply arguing is that the right thing to do is whatever causes the least pain to these living things.
Pointless and ridiculous! Talk about OT!harris said:
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Everyone keep saying that pinkies are high in protein, but really they are high in fat. Torts and beareded dragons should only have them as an occassional treat or during times when they need to put on weight.
I've fed them to snakes, water dragons, and bearded dragons. But they are not very nutritious. There are better sources of protien if that is what you are looking for. And no need to feed them live. Take one that is frozen and thaw it in warm water. Snakes go by smell, movement, and body temp (depending on type of snake).
You can sprinkle calc powder, TNT, etc on a pinkie to help make it a little more nutritious.
I've fed them to snakes, water dragons, and bearded dragons. But they are not very nutritious. There are better sources of protien if that is what you are looking for. And no need to feed them live. Take one that is frozen and thaw it in warm water. Snakes go by smell, movement, and body temp (depending on type of snake).
You can sprinkle calc powder, TNT, etc on a pinkie to help make it a little more nutritious.
harris said:
Agreed.
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Maggie Cummings
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Well, I had stopped reading this thread because it just wasn't interesting to me...but I just popped in for a minute and holy cow! So I am back to give an official warning...get back on topic and stop the drug talk...this is about mice...and feeding mice to our tortoises...
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