Picky Russian Tortoise

[ForrestSBGT]

I have a female Russian tortoise (her name is Forrest) of whom is being very picky. Normally, she loves food of any kind (I only feed her dark, leafy greens with squash, and sometimes dandelion greens), but, these past couple of days, she has only been into the stems of the greens and the squash. She also has been sleeping in her hide quite a bit, occasionally basking. I take her outside to get some sun and exercise everyday so she is not bored. I make sure she is given the correct foods, and I sprinkle her food a couple times a week with calcium, vitamins, and probiotics. She is housed with a male Russian tortoise who loves her very much. He sleeps with her, and goes everywhere with her, but he is showing signs of wanting to mate with her, which I believe is causing her stress. I would separate them, but they are very close, and I am afraid it would depress them. Does anyone have any advice as to what I should do? And, is there a proper amount of food which should be fed to them? I have always been torn about this subject, as I do not know how much food is too much. I also do not know the age of my tortoises; I do know, however, that they are over two but less than five years of age.

Thank you for your help,
Forrest

 

[KarenSoCal]

Hello, and welcome to the forum!

I think you have identified the problem, but just don't realize it yet. The reason your female is not eating is because of bullying.

First, are you absolutely certain you have a male and a female? If you will post some pictures taken from underneath that clearly show the tail and anal scutes, we can help you be sure. But if they are 2 years old, they are still too young for certainty unless the male has flashed you.

Even if they are male and female, it doesn't matter. Torts are animals that live a solitary life. Each one has a territory, and will defend it to death, if necessary. They rarely see other torts, except when love is in the air. Even then, they're only together long enough to make fertile eggs, and they go their own ways. Anything in one's territory is the enemy and needs to be run off.

When you see them following each other, or eating together, or laying on top of each other...most anything that we, as humans, think is cute, they are actually trying to out do the other one. As they grow and mature, this will escalate to ramming, biting, and flipping each other. It's possible for one of them to be killed.

Imagine how stressful it is to live like that! Neither of them can ever get away from the other. The bully is miserable because the other one won't leave, and the weaker one is always looking over its shoulder watching for its attacker. At first, the signs are subtle, and often not recognized, because "they're so cute together".

Once sexually mature, the male will never leave her alone. She can get torn and infected by his incessant attempts, and she can die.

You expressed concern that if separated they would be depressed...I believe they would shout with joy and eat well and be much happier.

As for the amount to feed them...imagine their shell is a bowl. Fill it and put it out in the morning. When the tort is in bed for the night, if the bowl is empty, give a little more the next day. Do this until there's a small amount left in the bowl at night. That's how much you feed them. They should each eat all they want of foods good for them every day.

Here's a thread you'll find interesting. And I linked our care sheet for Russians in case you haven't seen it yet.

Why not to keep 2 tortoises together - a lesson learned the hard way

This is a copy/paste of an article I wrote on my blog last year. I've seen several new keepers ask the question of whether they should get a 'friend' for their tortoise, and so rather than keeping on linking to my blog (which feels kinda self-promoting, which is not my intent), I am creating a...

tortoiseforum.org

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

www.tortoiseforum.org

 

[wellington]

Do not put human emotions on tortoises. He does not love her! In the wild tortoises live alone. They cross paths to breed and fight. If you had five females he would "love" all of them.
What he is doing is dominating her which causes her lots of stress and stress causes illness or death.
Get her into her own space asap!

 

[wellington]

There are thousands of threads on here of why tortoises should not be kept in pairs.

 

[ForrestSBGT]

Hello, and welcome to the forum!

I think you have identified the problem, but just don't realize it yet. The reason your female is not eating is because of bullying.

First, are you absolutely certain you have a male and a female? If you will post some pictures taken from underneath that clearly show the tail and anal scutes, we can help you be sure. But if they are 2 years old, they are still too young for certainty unless the male has flashed you.

Even if they are male and female, it doesn't matter. Torts are animals that live a solitary life. Each one has a territory, and will defend it to death, if necessary. They rarely see other torts, except when love is in the air. Even then, they're only together long enough to make fertile eggs, and they go their own ways. Anything in one's territory is the enemy and needs to be run off.

When you see them following each other, or eating together, or laying on top of each other...most anything that we, as humans, think is cute, they are actually trying to out do the other one. As they grow and mature, this will escalate to ramming, biting, and flipping each other. It's possible for one of them to be killed.

Imagine how stressful it is to live like that! Neither of them can ever get away from the other. The bully is miserable because the other one won't leave, and the weaker one is always looking over its shoulder watching for its attacker. At first, the signs are subtle, and often not recognized, because "they're so cute together".

Once sexually mature, the male will never leave her alone. She can get torn and infected by his incessant attempts, and she can die.

You expressed concern that if separated they would be depressed...I believe they would shout with joy and eat well and be much happier.

As for the amount to feed them...imagine their shell is a bowl. Fill it and put it out in the morning. When the tort is in bed for the night, if the bowl is empty, give a little more the next day. Do this until there's a small amount left in the bowl at night. That's how much you feed them. They should each eat all they want of foods good for them every day.

Here's a thread you'll find interesting. And I linked our care sheet for Russians in case you haven't seen it yet.

Why not to keep 2 tortoises together - a lesson learned the hard way

This is a copy/paste of an article I wrote on my blog last year. I've seen several new keepers ask the question of whether they should get a 'friend' for their tortoise, and so rather than keeping on linking to my blog (which feels kinda self-promoting, which is not my intent), I am creating a...

tortoiseforum.org

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

www.tortoiseforum.org

Thank you very much for your time. I have read that they enjoy the company, but I guess what I read was wrong. I will try to move her to a separate enclosure as soon as I can.

 

[KarenSoCal]

Thank you very much for your time. I have read that they enjoy the company, but I guess what I read was wrong. I will try to move her to a separate enclosure as soon as I can.

I'm so glad to hear that! They will both be much happier.

Are you aware that DT's are an endangered species? CA, NV, and AZ have strict laws re' them because here is their native territory. Some of those laws are in regards to breeding them.

In a nutshell, it is illegal to purposely breed them. Purposely is defined as housing a male and female together if you know that they are male and female. If there is an 'oops' and she lays eggs, you must leave them in the ground, and not put them into an incubator.

Being from PA, I found it very interesting to learn how the states are trying to protect DT's.

You have treasure in your back yard. ??Be sure to come back late Sept so we can help you with brumation (hibernation). There are different methods of doing it, but some are safer than others. In the meantime, search the forum for brumation/hibernation. You'll find plenty of reading material! ?

 

[zovick]

I'm so glad to hear that! They will both be much happier.

Are you aware that DT's are an endangered species? CA, NV, and AZ have strict laws re' them because here is their native territory. Some of those laws are in regards to breeding them.

In a nutshell, it is illegal to purposely breed them. Purposely is defined as housing a male and female together if you know that they are male and female. If there is an 'oops' and she lays eggs, you must leave them in the ground, and not put them into an incubator.

Being from PA, I found it very interesting to learn how the states are trying to protect DT's.

You have treasure in your back yard. ??Be sure to come back late Sept so we can help you with brumation (hibernation). There are different methods of doing it, but some are safer than others. In the meantime, search the forum for brumation/hibernation. You'll find plenty of reading material! ?

I think the first post said these were Russian Tortoises, not Desert Tortoises.

 

[KarenSoCal]

I think the first post said these were Russian Tortoises, not Desert Tortoises.

Oh my goodness!! You are so right! Another senior moment!

@Forrest T. I am so sorry!
I turned 70 in April...I'm going to blame it on my now advanced age. ?‍?

 

[zovick]

Oh my goodness!! You are so right! Another senior moment!

@Forrest T. I am so sorry!
I turned 70 in April...I'm going to blame it on my now advanced age. ?‍?

Don't fret. It happens.... I am 75 and know just what you mean!

 

[ForrestSBGT]

Oh my goodness!! You are so right! Another senior moment!

@Forrest T. I am so sorry!
I turned 70 in April...I'm going to blame it on my now advanced age. ?‍?

I have separated my two Russian tortoises. I can already tell Forrest feels much more safe. Thank you very much for you advice and time, once again.