Pellets & What Ive Been Told

[Kymiie]

http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/pets-accessories/t-rex-dry-tortoise-formula/

That is what i used to have for my herman tortoise! (altough he never ate it)
However I started talking to a tortoise sanctuary here in the UK who advised me not to feed him them as they swell up in the body and can cause problems...

I did the experiment, put a few in water left them for a couple of hours and they did swell up loads, so im glad I didnt feed them to him.

However you guys in USA use ''mazuri'' is that different to the above?

What is your opinion on these pellets?

You guys seem (as what ive read) have had no problems with it so maybe my tort should have some as he just eats the boring old spring mix and a few treats!!

Should i put him on these pellets?




Thanks xx

 

[Crazy1]

The pellet similar to the ones you listed (in the USA) are called pretty pets I believe. They are muli colored and smell good until wet, then really stink. I would not feed them to my torts after looking at the ingredients. (If you do a search here of Mazuri you will get lots of info). I do use Mazuri for my DT. My Greeks are not really interested in eating it much. But then they are not grass eaters. I always dampen the Mazuri first. Here is the home page for Mazuri. I suggest you really check out the site. https://www.mazuri.com/indexMazuri.asp

 

[Stephanie Logan]

Hi Kymiie,

You'd have to get someone like Madkins or EJ to thoroughly analyse the ingredients, but I am sitting here with my Mazuri and my RepCal tortoise food jar (which looks just like the TRex dry tortoise formula), which I bought for Taco in a state of panic when I first figured out that she needed more than just Romaine lettuce (I haven't fed it to her in months and she never wanted any anyway). The main difference in the ingredients is that the RepCal is mostly dried-fruit based, whereas Mazuri is grain-based (corn, soybeans, oats and wheat).

It has been my impression that Mazuri is a high-calorie, nutrient-dense supplement, not a stand-alone tortoise food. I give just one pellet a day to Taco, mixed in with her endive, squash, mushroom, cactus fruit, TNT (sprinkle) and watermelon or grape puree. I am trying to get her to eat enough food to gain weight.

So I think if you order Mazuri for Crush and only feed it as an occasional supplement or treat, you'd be OK.

 

[Yvonne G]

As far as the swelling up inside the tortoise: We always moisten the pellets before feeding them to the tortoise, so they're already swollen up. I can't imagine feeding a dry pellet to the tortoise, but then, Mazuri is probably a larger pellet than what you were originally talking about. If you tried to feed a dry Mazuri pellet to your tortoise he might choke on it because its so big.

Yvonne

 

[Crazy1]

Kymiie, Mazuri has been analized on the forum you just need to do a search to find it. Of all the pellets out there (as I recall) it was decided that Mazuri and Zoo Med Grassland Tortoise food would be the two best to feed desert type torts.

 

[Madkins007]

Pellets are a slightly complicated story. Swelling is not really the main issue (they don't swell with hydraulic pressure, they more just fluff up some). The main issue is nutrition.

First... a lot of brands, including Mazuri, use sweeteners to make them tastier, which also adds a lot of carbs. Most of the nutrition is also artificial- but most food scientists will tell you that nutrients are nutrients and your body cannot tell the difference between 'natural' and 'artificial'.

Next, a lot of brands use grains for nutrients and bulk. One set of experts will tell you that grains are bad, another will tell you that processed grains are raw nutrients and see the above paragraph.

One dirty secret of much packaged pet food is that the main drive is profit, so it is usually made as cheap as possible. One maker admits that grape jelly is the main ingredient in it's 'fruity' diet, others have been shown to have different ingredients and nutritional data than the labels show. (Pet food is not subject to all of the same rules as human foods.)

Mazuri is generally accepted by large breeders and zoos as a good diet for a wide variety of tortoises, and Mazuri itself recommends co-feeding some natural food along with the pellets. Here, some people, like EJ, use Mazuri a lot, others here use it as a supplement- to stretch the food dollar, in an emergency, or even as a sort of oversized vitamin tablet.

Of course, Mazuri was MADE for zoos (by the Purina company) for the giant tortoises as a cost-efficient diet solution- it runs well under a buck a pound when you buy a pallet of it, or about $25 for a 25lb bag if you buy it at a feed store, and about $4/lb or so in the pet store.

Here's the bottom line in my eyes. There are a lot of experience-based reports that good-quality pellets are a perfectly safe main diet or supplement, but not a lot of careful long-term feeding studies. Also, the realities of big breeders and zoos is very different than those of the small keeper.

I know we tend to feed pets 'pet foods'- dog chow, canned cat food, etc., but most of us would offer then a more natural, healthier diet if we could- if we had the time and money. To me, my torts don't take a lot of time or money so they generally get 'real food'- although I have some Mazuri in the freezer for emergencies.

 

[chairman]

My torts have been eating pellets for years without any problems. I offer them dry every day, and my torts' decision to eat pellets varies by what else is on their plate. The pellets don't get touched when worms are available, and seldom get touched if fruit treats are offered. With the other veggies there are mixed results.

I also include a mazuri-style pellet, but they seldom, if ever, touch them. But they also rarely graze- and I must have a half dozen diffent kinds of grasses, clover, dandelions, etc growing in their outdoor pen.

Of course, experiences and opinions differ. My tortoises are hingebacks and would be perfectly content eating a diet of nothing but worms. Apparently hunting is a fun enough that they don't get bored with them. If only there was a way to gut-load live worms with all the important veggie nutrients they need... but that is a different topic for another thread.

I try to provide a healthy mix for my torts, including pellets. I trust my torts to eat what they need to. Hingebacks are allegedly difficult to keep alive, especially wild-caught ones like mine, but mine have remained healthy and happy for about 8 years now. (Yes, I now understand the evils of wc animals and my next additions will be captive bred.)

If you are going to offer pellets as a primary diet, make sure to also give them crunchy veggies, a cuttlebone, something to keep their beaks trim. Mouth problems are deadly, and an exclusive diet of pellets could kill a tort just by letting his beak grow unchecked.

 

[-EJ]

The first line is totally wrong. Honey (not enough to even taste) is used as a binder and B vitamins.

All of the ingredients in Mazuri are naturally occuring ingredients.

Offering a 'natural' diet is great if you are a nutritionist and know what you are doing or you can offer your tortoise a well planted yard.

Pellets are a slightly complicated story. Swelling is not really the main issue (they don't swell with hydraulic pressure, they more just fluff up some). The main issue is nutrition.

First... a lot of brands, including Mazuri, use sweeteners to make them tastier, which also adds a lot of carbs. Most of the nutrition is also artificial- but most food scientists will tell you that nutrients are nutrients and your body cannot tell the difference between 'natural' and 'artificial'.

Next, a lot of brands use grains for nutrients and bulk. One set of experts will tell you that grains are bad, another will tell you that processed grains are raw nutrients and see the above paragraph.

One dirty secret of much packaged pet food is that the main drive is profit, so it is usually made as cheap as possible. One maker admits that grape jelly is the main ingredient in it's 'fruity' diet, others have been shown to have different ingredients and nutritional data than the labels show. (Pet food is not subject to all of the same rules as human foods.)

Mazuri is generally accepted by large breeders and zoos as a good diet for a wide variety of tortoises, and Mazuri itself recommends co-feeding some natural food along with the pellets. Here, some people, like EJ, use Mazuri a lot, others here use it as a supplement- to stretch the food dollar, in an emergency, or even as a sort of oversized vitamin tablet.

Of course, Mazuri was MADE for zoos (by the Purina company) for the giant tortoises as a cost-efficient diet solution- it runs well under a buck a pound when you buy a pallet of it, or about $25 for a 25lb bag if you buy it at a feed store, and about $4/lb or so in the pet store.

Here's the bottom line in my eyes. There are a lot of experience-based reports that good-quality pellets are a perfectly safe main diet or supplement, but not a lot of careful long-term feeding studies. Also, the realities of big breeders and zoos is very different than those of the small keeper.

I know we tend to feed pets 'pet foods'- dog chow, canned cat food, etc., but most of us would offer then a more natural, healthier diet if we could- if we had the time and money. To me, my torts don't take a lot of time or money so they generally get 'real food'- although I have some Mazuri in the freezer for emergencies.

 

[Madkins007]

The first line is totally wrong. Honey (not enough to even taste) is used as a binder and B vitamins.

All of the ingredients in Mazuri are naturally occuring ingredients.

Offering a 'natural' diet is great if you are a nutritionist and know what you are doing or you can offer your tortoise a well planted yard.

Pellets are a slightly complicated story. Swelling is not really the main issue (they don't swell with hydraulic pressure, they more just fluff up some). The main issue is nutrition.

First... a lot of brands, including Mazuri, use sweeteners to make them tastier, which also adds a lot of carbs. Most of the nutrition is also artificial- but most food scientists will tell you that nutrients are nutrients and your body cannot tell the difference between 'natural' and 'artificial'.

Next, a lot of brands use grains for nutrients and bulk. One set of experts will tell you that grains are bad, another will tell you that processed grains are raw nutrients and see the above paragraph.

One dirty secret of much packaged pet food is that the main drive is profit, so it is usually made as cheap as possible. One maker admits that grape jelly is the main ingredient in it's 'fruity' diet, others have been shown to have different ingredients and nutritional data than the labels show. (Pet food is not subject to all of the same rules as human foods.)

Mazuri is generally accepted by large breeders and zoos as a good diet for a wide variety of tortoises, and Mazuri itself recommends co-feeding some natural food along with the pellets. Here, some people, like EJ, use Mazuri a lot, others here use it as a supplement- to stretch the food dollar, in an emergency, or even as a sort of oversized vitamin tablet.

Of course, Mazuri was MADE for zoos (by the Purina company) for the giant tortoises as a cost-efficient diet solution- it runs well under a buck a pound when you buy a pallet of it, or about $25 for a 25lb bag if you buy it at a feed store, and about $4/lb or so in the pet store.

Here's the bottom line in my eyes. There are a lot of experience-based reports that good-quality pellets are a perfectly safe main diet or supplement, but not a lot of careful long-term feeding studies. Also, the realities of big breeders and zoos is very different than those of the small keeper.

I know we tend to feed pets 'pet foods'- dog chow, canned cat food, etc., but most of us would offer then a more natural, healthier diet if we could- if we had the time and money. To me, my torts don't take a lot of time or money so they generally get 'real food'- although I have some Mazuri in the freezer for emergencies.

The ingredient list for Mazuri Tortoise Diet lists 'cane molasses' as the 6th ingredient, and makes no mention of honey. (The first 5 are soybean hulls, ground corn, ground oats, dehulled soybean meal, and wheat middlings) (ref: https://www.mazuri.com/Home.asp?Products=1&Opening=2). I do not see a claim that all ingredients are naturally occurring, although it might very well be true (some of the ingredients listed are only listed as chemical compositions without stating where they come from).

Suggesting that offering a decent 'natural' diet is difficult is a bit of a red herring. Keepers on all levels have kept a lot of species of tortoises and other animals alive for decades on natural foods.

Certainly we cannot say these diets are perfect- but we really cannot say that for Mazuri, etc. as well. After all, as you have pointed out so often, we generally do not KNOW what they need, so we cannot KNOW what diet fits that need perfectly. We are all just doing the best we can with what we know (or, at least, believe to be appropriate.)

 

[-EJ]

Molassas... I think honey... They are probably not too different. The point is that the quantity is minimal and cannot even be tasted.

I don't see any items that you listed which are manufactured from chemicals... all are commercially grown. I consider that natural.

All those people who have raised tortoises over the years have done so outdoors for the most part. I haven't met too many who have been able to provide a 'natural' diet completely indoors... except for zoos which have nutritionists on staff.

These diets are not perfect but they are not far from perfect. The manufactures to pay attention to input from their customers and do change the formula as needed.

My argument is that you can try and provide the best nutrition you can guess based on hundreds of plants or you can provide and equal nutrition based on what a nutritionist believes they need. It's a question of trust and simplicity. For me... these diets are a godsend after trying to raise reptiles over the last thirty years in various climates.

The ingredient list for Mazuri Tortoise Diet lists 'cane molasses' as the 6th ingredient, and makes no mention of honey. (The first 5 are soybean hulls, ground corn, ground oats, dehulled soybean meal, and wheat middlings) (ref: https://www.mazuri.com/Home.asp?Products=1&Opening=2). I do not see a claim that all ingredients are naturally occurring, although it might very well be true (some of the ingredients listed are only listed as chemical compositions without stating where they come from).

Suggesting that offering a decent 'natural' diet is difficult is a bit of a red herring. Keepers on all levels have kept a lot of species of tortoises and other animals alive for decades on natural foods.

Certainly we cannot say these diets are perfect- but we really cannot say that for Mazuri, etc. as well. After all, as you have pointed out so often, we generally do not KNOW what they need, so we cannot KNOW what diet fits that need perfectly. We are all just doing the best we can with what we know (or, at least, believe to be appropriate.)

 

[Madkins007]

The ingredients of Mazuri are:
Ground soybean hulls, ground corn, ground oats, dehulled soybean meal, wheat middlings, cane
molasses, dehydrated alfalfa meal, wheat germ, soybean oil, dicalcium phosphate, monocalcium
phosphate, brewers dried yeast, calcium carbonate, salt, DL-methionine, choline chloride,
menadione dimethylpyrimidinol bisulfite (vitamin K), pyridoxine hydrochloride, d-alpha tocopheryl
acetate (natural source vitamin E), cholecalciferol (vitamin D3), biotin, L-lysine, tocopherols (a
preservative), calcium pantothenate, vitamin A acetate, riboflavin, folic acid, nicotinic acid, thiamin
mononitrate, vitamin Bj2 supplement, manganous oxide, zinc oxide, ferrous carbonate, copper
sulfate, zinc sulfate, calcium iodate, cobalt carbonate, sodium selenite.

After #9, the rest appears to be chemicals. Honey is rarely used in processed meals like this- it does not hold up well to the heat and pressure- and there are significant nutritional differences between the two (although they would make a big difference at this point). Besides, molasses is a by-product of sugar production so is a ton cheaper.

You cannot taste the sweetness? The molasses and soybean oils seem to the main component in the oily residue of the pellets, and tastes quite sweet to me- but that may be just me. Sweeteners are a common addition- after all, there are cheaper binders (starches, glutens, hydrogenated fats, etc.)- and are not automatically a bad thing. After all, carbs equals energy.

I'm not trying to get into it with you, EJ. You were instrumental in my changing my mind from pellets being the evil 'kids breakfast cereal' of foods to being a valid option. I was just trying to present a reasonably balanced picture about what a lot of people believe to be controversial, and then keep follow-up conversations accurate.

 

[mctlong]

Molasses? Really? I don't think I'd feel comfortable giving my torts molasses, not matter how "natural" it is. It does seem to have a wide variety of vitamins and minerals. Do they make a version of Mazuri without the molasses?

 

[tortoisenerd]

They do not have a version without Molasses that I know of. I feel comfortable giving my tort half a meal of Mazuri once a week. I look at it as some variety and to make sure he likes it in case of an emergency in which I cannot go out to buy food for him. I believe that there is a small amount of the Molasses in it, although I would prefer to not have it there.

Another option is the ZooMed Grassland Tortoise Food. This is the only other close to natural food I have heard of. Ingredients: Suncured Oat Hay, Suncured Timothy Hay, Soybean Hulls, Wheat Middlings, Suncured Alfalfa Meal, Whole Ground Wheat, Escarole, Endive, Calcium Carbonate, Monocalcium Phosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Yeast Culture, Dandelion Greens (dried), Sodium Bicarbonate, Soy Lecithin, Direct-Fed Microorganisms (heat stable cultures of Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus casei, Bifidobacterium bifidum, Enterococcus faecium, Aspergillus oryzae), Yeast Extract, Hydrated Sodium Calcium Aluminosilicate, Garlic Extract, Anise Extract, Cassia Extract (Chinese), Ginger Extract, Horseradish Extract, Juniper Extract, Natural Flavoring, Marigold (petal extract), Yucca schidigera (whole plant powder), L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of stabilized Vitamin C), Zinc Methionine Complex, Selenium Yeast, Vitamin E Supplement, Mixed Tocopherols, Rosemary Extract, Ascorbic Acid, Citric Acid, Lecithin, Silicon Dioxide, Choline Chloride, Vitamin A Supplement (Retinyl Acetate), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Niacin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate (source of Vitamin B5), Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K activity), Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Thiamine Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Biotin, Folic Acid, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Zinc Oxide, Manganous Oxide, Ferrous Sulfate, Tribasic Copper Chloride, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite.

 

[-EJ]

Nope... I can't taste it. In fact it tastes rather bland to me... no salt or sweetness.

I'm not trying to stir anything either... just trying to keep the conversation honest.

You cannot taste the sweetness? The molasses and soybean oils seem to the main component in the oily residue of the pellets, and tastes quite sweet to me- but that may be just me. Sweeteners are a common addition- after all, there are cheaper binders (starches, glutens, hydrogenated fats, etc.)- and are not automatically a bad thing. After all, carbs equals energy.

I'm not trying to get into it with you, EJ. You were instrumental in my changing my mind from pellets being the evil 'kids breakfast cereal' of foods to being a valid option. I was just trying to present a reasonably balanced picture about what a lot of people believe to be controversial, and then keep follow-up conversations accurate.

 

[Madkins007]

Molasses? Really? I don't think I'd feel comfortable giving my torts molasses, not matter how "natural" it is. It does seem to have a wide variety of vitamins and minerals. Do they make a version of Mazuri without the molasses?

And without trying to 'get into it' with you either, this is the problem. We are basically a bunch of average Joes trying to do our best to raise our pets- whether tortoises or puppies- the best we can.

We have opinions on what is and is not good, usually based on things like what authorities we like say, or our understanding of research that often is not really applicable to tortoises in the first place, etc.

When other research or opinions are presented, we often resist them for various reasons.

I don't understand what it means that our tortoises are hind-gut fermenters, or how molasses would affect that, etc. but I doubt that the amount of molasses, in the amounts it exists in the pellets, would be a difficulty. If it was, I would assume that keepers like EJ or the many zoos that use the stuff would have noticed and said something.

 

[-EJ]

I really don't think the average Joe has kept reptiles numbering in the hundreds every year from 17 to 54. The nembers did drop to 15 to 20 during certain transitional stages in life.

I really don't care what the next person is comfortable with or I'd of ended my life long ago.

I pass along experience and convictions based on that experience. I will argue points which are obviously points to support 'my way is the right way'... wait... that's what I'm doing... not. My way is easy and successful based on years of searching along with trial an error. The Average Joe has no clue how spectacular this diet is. I've said time and again... I could be wrong but results are very promising.

I'm sorry to say I can't list authorities. My opinion is based on my use of the diet. I use the diet based on authorities and keepers who have made me comfortable to give it a try... 10 years ago.

oops... just read the last line. On the mark.

Molasses? Really? I don't think I'd feel comfortable giving my torts molasses, not matter how "natural" it is. It does seem to have a wide variety of vitamins and minerals. Do they make a version of Mazuri without the molasses?

And without trying to 'get into it' with you either, this is the problem. We are basically a bunch of average Joes trying to do our best to raise our pets- whether tortoises or puppies- the best we can.

We have opinions on what is and is not good, usually based on things like what authorities we like say, or our understanding of research that often is not really applicable to tortoises in the first place, etc.

When other research or opinions are presented, we often resist them for various reasons.

I don't understand what it means that our tortoises are hind-gut fermenters, or how molasses would affect that, etc. but I doubt that the amount of molasses, in the amounts it exists in the pellets, would be a difficulty. If it was, I would assume that keepers like EJ or the many zoos that use the stuff would have noticed and said something.

 

[mctlong]

I really don't think the average Joe has kept reptiles numbering in the hundreds every year from 17 to 54. The nembers did drop to 15 to 20 during certain transitional stages in life.

I really don't care what the next person is comfortable with or I'd of ended my life long ago.

I pass along experience and convictions based on that experience. I will argue points which are obviously points to support 'my way is the right way'... wait... that's what I'm doing... not. My way is easy and successful based on years of searching along with trial an error. The Average Joe has no clue how spectacular this diet is. I've said time and again... I could be wrong but results are very promising.

I'm sorry to say I can't list authorities. My opinion is based on my use of the diet. I use the diet based on authorities and keepers who have made me comfortable to give it a try... 10 years ago.

oops... just read the last line. On the mark.

Molasses? Really? I don't think I'd feel comfortable giving my torts molasses, not matter how "natural" it is. It does seem to have a wide variety of vitamins and minerals. Do they make a version of Mazuri without the molasses?

And without trying to 'get into it' with you either, this is the problem. We are basically a bunch of average Joes trying to do our best to raise our pets- whether tortoises or puppies- the best we can.

We have opinions on what is and is not good, usually based on things like what authorities we like say, or our understanding of research that often is not really applicable to tortoises in the first place, etc.

When other research or opinions are presented, we often resist them for various reasons.

I don't understand what it means that our tortoises are hind-gut fermenters, or how molasses would affect that, etc. but I doubt that the amount of molasses, in the amounts it exists in the pellets, would be a difficulty. If it was, I would assume that keepers like EJ or the many zoos that use the stuff would have noticed and said something.

LOL! I feel like I've just stepped into a coversation that started long before I joined this forum! I saw the word "molasses" and my gut instinct tells me not to feed this to my tortoise. I have no idea what "authorities" or "research" you guys are talking about. Was there an article released on this topic?

I'm just telling you guys what my gut instincts are. I grew up around tortoises. My grandmother raised DTs most of her life. They were fed a hearty diet of weeds and figs. I gauruntee you, none of them ever tasted mollassess and they lived long, healthy lives and outlived their owner. I'm basing my gut instinct on my family's 80 years of successfully raising tortoises. I don't care what they do in zoos. I probably will not be giving my torts mollasses anytime in the near future. That does not mean that I'm judging your husbandry methods. If molasses works for you and your torts, go for it.

 

[-EJ]

So... you're the person who is responsible for this mess... you shout be ashamed of yourself.

on one point what do DTs key onto... flowers... fruits... which contain... ahhhh... sugars.

Molasass is a plant sugar... honey... same thing... oh... did you mention figs??????

I'm thinking 80 years and nothing submitted to the hobby????

Ummm... again... they are not being given molasass. Molassass is being used as a binder. Nothing like taking information out of context.

I really don't think the average Joe has kept reptiles numbering in the hundreds every year from 17 to 54. The nembers did drop to 15 to 20 during certain transitional stages in life.

I really don't care what the next person is comfortable with or I'd of ended my life long ago.

I pass along experience and convictions based on that experience. I will argue points which are obviously points to support 'my way is the right way'... wait... that's what I'm doing... not. My way is easy and successful based on years of searching along with trial an error. The Average Joe has no clue how spectacular this diet is. I've said time and again... I could be wrong but results are very promising.

I'm sorry to say I can't list authorities. My opinion is based on my use of the diet. I use the diet based on authorities and keepers who have made me comfortable to give it a try... 10 years ago.

oops... just read the last line. On the mark.

Molasses? Really? I don't think I'd feel comfortable giving my torts molasses, not matter how "natural" it is. It does seem to have a wide variety of vitamins and minerals. Do they make a version of Mazuri without the molasses?

And without trying to 'get into it' with you either, this is the problem. We are basically a bunch of average Joes trying to do our best to raise our pets- whether tortoises or puppies- the best we can.

We have opinions on what is and is not good, usually based on things like what authorities we like say, or our understanding of research that often is not really applicable to tortoises in the first place, etc.

When other research or opinions are presented, we often resist them for various reasons.

I don't understand what it means that our tortoises are hind-gut fermenters, or how molasses would affect that, etc. but I doubt that the amount of molasses, in the amounts it exists in the pellets, would be a difficulty. If it was, I would assume that keepers like EJ or the many zoos that use the stuff would have noticed and said something.

LOL! I feel like I've just stepped into a coversation that started long before I joined this forum! I saw the word "molasses" and my gut instinct tells me not to feed this to my tortoise. I have no idea what "authorities" or "research" you guys are talking about. Was there an article released on this topic?

I'm just telling you guys what my gut instincts are. I grew up around tortoises. My grandmother raised DTs most of her life. They were fed a hearty diet of weeds and figs. I gauruntee you, none of them ever tasted mollassess and they lived long, healthy lives and outlived their owner. I'm basing my gut instinct on my family's 80 years of successfully raising tortoises. I don't care what they do in zoos. I probably will not be giving my torts mollasses anytime in the near future. That does not mean that I'm judging your husbandry methods. If molasses works for you and your torts, go for it.

 

[Kadaan]

I just read the wikipedia article about molasses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molasses) and it's pretty interesting.

It's made from boiling sugar cane (or sugar beets,) and molasses is what's left AFTER most of the sugar is removed. It's actually kind of healthy!

"... source of calcium, magnesium, potassium, and iron; one tablespoon provides up to 20% of the daily value of each of those nutrients."

 

[mctlong]

I just read the wikipedia article about molasses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molasses) and it's pretty interesting.

It's made from boiling sugar cane (or sugar beets,) and molasses is what's left AFTER most of the sugar is removed. It's actually kind of healthy!

"... source of calcium, magnesium, potassium, and iron; one tablespoon provides up to 20% of the daily value of each of those nutrients."

Thanks Kadaan! Thats very helpful!

I'm thinking 80 years and nothing submitted to the hobby????

EJ, Don't insult my family. Its not appropriate. My family's contribution is providing a group of tortoises with a very long and happy life. My family's goal was to provide the best care possible to a group of very old tortoises, the goal was not to publish in some hobbyist magazine. That does not make our contribution any less significant. Furthermore, caring for tortoises is more than just a 'hobby.' Its a lifelong commitment to some very special animals.