Pellets or no Pellets

[lichjen]

I have seen on MULTIPLE pages about the tortoise pellets different answers .

1/2 the pages say they are HORRIBLE and bad for them

1/2 the pages say to use the pellets

I've been giving my tortoises a good veggie and fruit salad every day

they also have a tortoise block in there (which has cactus and other good stuff in it)

 

[abclements]

I don't feed pellets unless it is zoomed forest tort food or Mazuri. No other food compares to these two, both on paper and experimentally.

 

[TommyZ]

As i have found in my searches, most practices are somewhat subjective, regarding almoat all care and husbandry techniques. Like you, all research results in 50/50 answers....some say its great, others say your a fool. It seems everything has some good and some bad in it....sooooo, like anything else, pellets (mazuri, zoomed, etc) are ok, but not perfect. Just feed in moderation, feed a varied diet, and all will be good. As for myself, my torts get mazuri twice a week, lotsa variety otherwise, and from what im told, my torts are in great health.

 

[lichjen]

I got them some Mazuri at my local Repticon today and gave it to them when I got home - they love it!

 

[wellington]

The tortoise food pellets are not bad as part of a varied diet. To feed just pellets is not good. Also, some of the threads you were reading may have been about the pellet substrate, which is always bad.

 

[EricIvins]

The tortoise food pellets are not bad as part of a varied diet. To feed just pellets is not good. Also, some of the threads you were reading may have been about the pellet substrate, which is always bad.

So why is it "not good"? Is this based on fact or opinion?

 

[Mgridgaway]

The tortoise food pellets are not bad as part of a varied diet. To feed just pellets is not good. Also, some of the threads you were reading may have been about the pellet substrate, which is always bad.

So why is it "not good"? Is this based on fact or opinion?

I would also like to know what you're basing this on.

 

[zenoandthetortoise]

The tortoise food pellets are not bad as part of a varied diet. To feed just pellets is not good. Also, some of the threads you were reading may have been about the pellet substrate, which is always bad.

So why is it "not good"? Is this based on fact or opinion?

I would also like to know what you're basing this on.

Excellent question! It would be great to have opinions labeled as such and 'facts ' supported by data.

 

[Jacqui]

These are my thoughts on this subject...

I think there is nothing better then a natural diet, that being said NONE of us can do this. We do not live in the area they come from, nor do we have as large of enclosures, as they would have roaming area so we can't give them the exact things as in the wild. We can however mimic those things as closely as possible. That said, while I think a well balanced, wide variety fresh diet is the best, it will lack some trace things no doubt. I think feeding some of the pelleted food every so often is a good thing. Beyond the fact that it may or may not have something your diet is lacking, if your tortoise thinks of the pellets as food, if you were ever without fresh foods your still fine. Like you are snowed in for a week, or electricity is off, or you have to leave home for a forest fire, huricane, or whatever, pelleted food is easier to keep stocked on hand for emergencies or to take with you in an emergency.

I also think an all pelleted diet is not idea for factors other then food quality/value. Food is so much more then that. A tortoise needs to use those muscles and his beak to rip and tear leaves and to chew his food (also a problem with folks who only feed cut up greens). Those pellets lack that need a tortoise's body has. I think a tortoise needs to "hunt" his food and you just can not hang pellets up from a clip the way you can a clump of greens for him to reach and stretch to get to. Most folks feed the pellets wet, too much wet food (which means soft) does not give proper wear on the beak (also a problem if you don't feed weeds and other more fiberous items). Now this next part may all be in my head, but I also think the pellets fail to give the tortoise the amount of mental stimulation that comes from fresh food with various serving methods and food makeup.

Notice I used a lot of "I thinks", because these comments are mainly from my own observations. I have not conducted tests to validate them.

 

[StarSapphire22]

As far as pellets not being a "workout" -mentally or physically-, what I have done is a) just mix it up with greens, easy peasy... or (my favorite) b) Mazuri burritos! I put a small spoonful inside large-leafed greens and roll it up burrito style. Sometimes I will put a little treat in there too, like a small tomato or strawberry slice. He smells it and circles around trying to find the best point to attack. It's pretty cute...and he puts in quite the effort!

If stimulation, etc. is a reason to not feed *high-quality, nutritious* pellets, there's lots of ways to circumvent that issue.

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Also, I have heard from a well-respected member here (who wishes to remain anonymous) that they raised a batch of hatchlings entirely on Mazuri and that they are some of their best, healthiest torts. They do still advocate feeding greens, etc. but I think (for Mazuri at least) pellets can be an excellent addition to their diet and dont need to be fed as little as many people recommend. My little guy usually gets it 3-5 times a week, in addition to greens and is healthy and active and full of personality.

 

[Jacqui]

If stimulation, etc. is a reason to not feed *high-quality, nutritious* pellets, there's lots of ways to circumvent that issue.

No, what I am saying is it is one area folks forget to think about, not the sole reason to not feed pellets. As for the burritos, I think that might work well with one or a few tortoise, not so much if you have a large group. Atleast for me, I would be making a major mess trying to make all those burritos given my clumsiness. As in, I would be wearing more Mazuri then the tortoises would be getting in their burritos.

Plus did you read where Mazuri is actually suppose to be fed dry? I believe it was Will who pointed that out.

When somebody tries to tell me something is a one size fits all, I have problems with it. In this case, I do not think the same diet made for a sulcata would be also comepletely balanced for my hingeback. Should adults be needing the same food as a hatchling? Or what about an egg laying female? I also realize that foods that are processed will loose food value with time. So perhaps today it might be "nutritious", but next month or six months down the road (even with freezing) it might be so "nutirtious". Plus factor in how long it may sit on some shelf or hot warehouse somewhereloosing it's quality. I think hearing high quality and nutritious from the folks making this food, does not make me a believer any more then the statements that heat rocks are great to use for reptiles.

There is another thing I worry about just in general. In the wild tortoises have times of little or no food. If we raise them the exact opposite of how nature made them, are we causing them health problems in the future. Are we growing them too fast and could that maybe three generations from now start a crack in their hardiness? Just something I think about, and just put out for thought, not to be made into a serious part of this conversation and nothing we can prove or disprove at this point and time.

Also while that group of hatchlings may be fine, I worry about long term effects on the indivual tortoise and it's future breeding and future generations. I knew of a person who only fed iceburg lettuce and used one of the powders (forgive me for not remembering which one) on a clutch of tortoises. Amazingly they not only survived, but grew and looked "normal". I wonder with them (just as with the Mazuri only) what the insides, the unseen parts look like and what the future health for them might hold.

Then there is a thing called variety. I know I would hate to live by those boring bland pellets my entire life. I know some of you do not think tortoises can feel that way, but until I can mind read a tortoise I like to think they are much like other animals... like myself enjoying a variety of colors, smells, tastes, and textures. Plus I observe how my tortoises like to pick and choose among their food offerings. Each has favorites and some change from day today. So to me, that kinda makes me think they do have the same feeling about food that I have, once food is not something they have in scarce supply.

So yes, I can see where a person might want to do a diet of pure pellets as you say, it's "easy peasy", it means as a keeper I don't have to think or study nutrition, just pour out those pellets. Of course, I do take pride in making my tortoises diets the most appealing, the most variety, and the most stimulating it can be. I enjoy doing those things and not in my mind taking the short cut pellets allow. Sorta to me like the difference between a small barren enclosure compared to a large well planted one. To each their own. Each of us have our own value system to work from.

Like I said, for me, it's good as a part of the diet. I find my tortoises overall do not like them, so I don't feed it often to everybody. I do feed it more often to the sulcatas and redfooted/cherryheads, just because those guys do seem to enjoy it. Each of us as keepers must make our own choices and nobody has the right to say to somebody who chooses all pellets, no pellets, or a mixture that they are doing something wrong. It's not black or white. I have just given you my personal beliefs, my reasonings and thinkings.

 

[StarSapphire22]

Jacqui I hope you didn't think I was being argumentative. I agree with most of what you said. I was just trying to point out that many people seem to think Mazuri or other pellets are a once a week only thing, and I disagree with that. I don't think it should be their entire diet though either. A small amount mixed in with some greens a few times a week I think is a good idea.

 

[Jacqui]

Jacqui I hope you didn't think I was being argumentative. I agree with most of what you said. I was just trying to point out that many people seem to think Mazuri or other pellets are a once a week only thing, and I disagree with that. I don't think it should be their entire diet though either. A small amount mixed in with some greens a few times a week I think is a good idea.

Nope. I thought we were both just giving each other things to think about. I myself said some as a part of a balanced diet is good in my opinion. (I even have two bags of Mazuri, well maybe more like one and a half I picked up this fall to be used during the winter. ).

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As a side note: I have long given serious thought to getting a few sulcata siblings and having say two who eat nothing but weeds/greens/leaves/blooms, two that get a combo of that and Mazuri, and then a third set of two who only get Mazuri (no grazing even) and compare how they do. I think it would be interesting.