Parasites? Over-eating? in MA

[SueieM]

I have my approx. 6 yr. old sulcata in the house right night due to the cold weather here in MA. I have an area of the house which I laid down some floor, built a box which goes over 2 corners of baseboard heat so it can get pretty warm in there when heat is cranking. He can come out and in when he wants. I also have a vapor lamp he lays under for a few hrs. a day. I soak him about once a week in the tub. I feed him Orchard Grass in the winter mixed with mostly romaine, escarole, occasionally turnip greens, cactus pads and cactus pears whenever I can get them which is pretty often in the markets, a little carrot, and once in a great while, a treat of some kind of fruit. I rescued him at about 2 yrs old I think because ppl who had him were killing him and he was very unhealthy due to ignorance, (soft shell, didnt' walk very good, kept in pine chips in a container, and only fed him iceberg lettuce)! My husband brought him home from an apartment he was doing maintenance in (him always loving turtles, tortoises, etc.) I wasn't too happy about it, but he's here now for about 3 - 4 yrs, and as I said, in my dining room in the corner. He was in the basement but it doesn't stay warm enough right now even with heater and lights, etc. so we've brought him upstairs for now. I have a couple of questions: He seems to eat alot. I make him a tray of food with his hay and some, or all, of the various greens, pads, etc. I mentioned above. However, he's always seems to be looking for more food. I feed him in the morning and at night because he never seems satisfied. He's going to the dog food bowl, comes out when we are cooking supper (I think he smells the human food cooking, or its possibly the actiivity?). But anyway, he's always looking for more food. So that's one thing. SECOND thing is he looks as if he's getting a little bulge on his sides so I'm wondering if he's getting too much food and getting too fat?? Also, ould he possibly have parasites or something that is making him so hungry? I do have bird feeders in the yard (quite a few of them), so there is bird poop, squirrel poop, and I saw a rat out there a few times, (which is gone now, the neighbors killed it), but my tortoise walks around the yard and has been in contact with all of the other animal food, waste, etc.. So, should I have him tested for parasites? If so, does a vet need to do it or can I do the test at home? If at home, what should I buy? Or, is he always hungry due to boredom, and the fact that he's not outside grazing whenever he wants? I have no good vets around here that know enough about Sulcata's so thankfully I've only had to take him once (and that one want to put him to sleep & told us he prob. wouldn't make it through the night, WOW). I brought him home and soaked him for a day on and off for hours in my tub, since I was hoping constipation could be the problem, after seeing xrays the vet did, & he pooped and was fine after that). Haven't been to a vet since. We feed him a tray (a dustpan tray) full of Orchard grass and stuff I mentioned 2X/day. Is that too much? If we don't he won't stop looking for food. He had quite a bit of pyramiding when we got him but his shell is looking a lot better as he's grown and now there is basically only the center row that still had deep indentations between the scoots but the side ones and the first row on the top are pretty much smooth. I also give him this "TNT" I buy from a place on the internet which is a ground mixture of all great things for tortoises, and I give him calcium powder only a few times a month since the TNT is supposed to provide him with that. I put TNT on his food once a day usually. So any comments or answers on my questions would be appreciated. Thanks P.S. i EDITED THIS AND ATTACHED 3 PICS OF HIM THAT ARE FROM A FEW MOS. AGO. Please look at him and let me know how he looks to you, notice the bulge on the side in the 1st pic which is a little bit bulgier now, and he's a bit larger now too. The bulges are on both sides and are about 1/3 of the way down towards his head, not towards the back end.

 

[Yvonne G]

The way the very top of the shell sinks down is from metabolic bone disease when he was younger. They usually die from it, but obviously yours has recovered. The bulges may just be new growth trying to grow past a deformed shell. He'll never look smooth and normal, but it looks like you're offering the correct care now. Although they're written for very young sulcatas, and yours is past that stage, be sure to read the stickies posted at the top of the sulcata section.

 

[SueieM]

The way the very top of the shell sinks down is from metabolic bone disease when he was younger. They usually die from it, but obviously yours has recovered. The bulges may just be new growth trying to grow past a deformed shell. He'll never look smooth and normal, but it looks like you're offering the correct care now. Although they're written for very young sulcatas, and yours is past that stage, be sure to read the stickies posted at the top of the sulcata section.

I am hoping that the shell keeps getting better from the bottom up. Compared to how I got him, its improved a lot! He was about 1/3 of the size he is now. I actually last winter grew him in my basement clover grass I bought from the same place I got the TNT from. They sell cactus pads too I buy sometimes when I can't find in market (much cheaper in market)! But, anyway, thanks for your response. I didn't know anything about sulcatas but when my husband brought him home I tried to educate myself on the internet about what his needs, and this is one of the places I came, Thank God for this forum and others like it. Do you know anything about the other questions I asked in my original post, re. possible parasites esp. since he's around birds, squirrels, etc. all the time in the summer, spring and fall? I am attaching a brand new pic of him I just took so please take a look at that one as well and look at the "bulge" I'm talking about.

Also, what about him seeming to be hungry all the time? Could it be he knows where the dog gets fed so he goes there a lot? Also, he never used to drink water and I see him now go to the dog's water bowl and drink water, but I see it squirt out of his nostrils too - - is that normal? I see him do that when he's soaking too, so I'm assuming its OK. Can't he get water in his lungs from that or is that how he's making sure he's NOT getting water in his lungs? I do hear him make a cough every once in awhile, not every day but here and there we were also wondering about. Could that just be a cough from the orchard grass stuck in his throat or something?? Is it abnormal for them to make those cough noises at all or is it OK as long as its occassional? Re. the eating, I hear people saying that their sulcatas eat once every few days (a woman in my town has 4 of them and she says hers eat once every few days) . Is that normal? She told me she feeds them KALE, mostly. I told her that I didn't think Kale was very good for them but she didn't really want to hear it. I've never seen her tortoises, but one is about 20 she said. I'm wondering if they look better than mine? I think Kale is too high in some kind of vitamin, isn't it? I also know of some idiots whose 20+ yr. old tortoise recently died. My husband saw the tortoise a few weeks before it died (1st time he ever saw it) and he had told me about it and how bad it looked, totally deformed, bulging right out of his shell EVERYWHERE, SAD! A few weeks later, he came home and told me that it had died (he works with the guy whose relative had it so the coworker told him about the death). He said they were feeding it FRUIT mostly. I told him Well, that's why it died! They are not made to eat fruit, except for very occassonally, I know that! It mostly likely suffered its whole life too! Unbelievable isn't it? The ignorance, again, just like the ppl who had mine, which I have to now take care of, and its not easy living in MA! In fact, I was on here a few months ago trying to rehome him somewhere where its warm all year long. Almost had a guy who wanted him but he didn't seem enthusiastic enough, like he really, really wanted him. So I gave up on that.

Sorry this got so long, but have a lot of questions and I know you know a lot about them. Here are a few more pics I just took 10 mins ago so you can see how he really looks right now. On some of them, I have taped paper markers to show where I am most concerned about the "bulge". Its not that bad now, but if it continues to grow like that, bulging more, I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong or is it due to the possible OVER eating??
Please see new PICS.
Thanks,
Sue.

 

[Yvonne G]

"Hungry all the time" describes sulcata tortoises (and Russians). There's nothing to worry about there. Just make sure what you feed him is healthy, has the right calcium/phosphorus ratio, etc. TNT is a good product.

When tortoises drink they do so through their nose. So it's not unusual to see water squirt out the nose (the other end of the nostrils ends up in the roof of their mouth).

Try to not listen to that person. A healthy sulcata eats a lot, and a diet of mostly kale is not a good diet. Most of us feed our tortoises daily, and some even twice a day. Think about it: a wild tortoise eats as much as it wants to, any time it wants to.

Your posts make you sound like you've got a good grasp on what the tortoise needs to be a healthy tortoise.

 

[Yvonne G]

Try to not worry about the bulges. He's growing the way his deformed shell is allowing him to grow.

 

[SueieM]

"Hungry all the time" describes sulcata tortoises (and Russians). There's nothing to worry about there. Just make sure what you feed him is healthy, has the right calcium/phosphorus ratio, etc. TNT is a good product.

When tortoises drink they do so through their nose. So it's not unusual to see water squirt out the nose (the other end of the nostrils ends up in the roof of their mouth).

Try to not listen to that person. A healthy sulcata eats a lot, and a diet of mostly kale is not a good diet. Most of us feed our tortoises daily, and some even twice a day. Think about it: a wild tortoise eats as much as it wants to, any time it wants to.

Your posts make you sound like you've got a good grasp on what the tortoise needs to be a healthy tortoise.

Thank you, I try, and as I said I've gotten a lot from this site, from you and other "old timers" as well as other sites. I also like the "Camp Kenan" site. Have you ever seen his beautiful sanctuary for many tortoises and YouTube videos which you can see everything and he explains and teaches a lot about sulcatas. He states in one that he won't even sell or ship any tortoises to northern states because its too cold and most people aren't equipped or willing to do what it takes to provide what they need, and he also says its expensive to do so. The videos are entertaining as well as informative.

Another question, while I have your attention right now, if you would: If you notice on the 3rd pic that shows him from the back to the front you can see the first scoot in the front starting to lift, or split a bit. If this should get worse and start to separate from the one behind it, is there something I can put on it to help it mend? I saw on Dr. K, on TV that her huge sulcata had some white stuff on it in a few places between the scoots. It almost looked like a "cement type" stuff. Do you know what that stuff is?

Also, what do you think about parasites? I've never tested him for anything like that. Should his poop be tested? Like I said, he has a lot of exposure to bird poop because of the many feeders I have in the yard, squirrels, etc. that are always around (eating all my seed of course, LOL). What is your opinion on that?

Re. the woman who feeds hers Kale, No, I don't/didn't listen to her. I trust my own research more than people I run into. I thought when talking to her after she told me she has 4 sulcatas, which is a lot for this cold area, that she must know what she's doing, but when she told me Kale, I said to myself, "I guess she doesn't know what she's doing either". At 55 yrs. old, I don't really want to have to keep taking care of him. I didn't go out and get him, I saved his life, and I think he'd be much happier where he can be outside year round instead of in the house or in the basement in cold state of MA for at least six months out of the year. I don't want to just give him to anyone, they must really want him and have a good place for him, etc.