Outdoor enclosure concept

[JHat]

So this is a concept of an enclosure i'm thinking of building.

Overall measurements are 12'x12' with 28" above grade and 6" below grade, the top opens from 2 sides (hinged in the middle) theres a 2' wide swing door on one side.

The pipe running along the top will most likely be pvc (flex hose where it exits the enclosure so it doesn't interfere wit the lid doors) with tee branches and misters every 3' (6 total).

The pond is 4' in diameter.

I've made the "tortoise" representation for scale they are drawn in at 14" long.

There will be hides and plants of course but i haven't drawn them in yet.

 

[Tom]

12x12 is too small for a 14" tortoise, and in most cases a 14" tortoise does not need a cover. I mention these things because a workable cover is often the limiting factor for the size of an outdoor enclosure.

Will your pond have a drain and fill pipe? If not, how will you clean it?

 

[JHat]

That's a good thought if i don't need a cover it'll cut on cost and make expansion easier, also it won't limit the plants to a certain height. Currently my redfoot is only 4-5 inches, So i figured 14" was basically a max size.

The pond i was thinking would be more of a plastic dish of sorts that would be removable and embedded in the ground. I do like the idea of a drain pipe though i could run a pipe from the bottom of the pond with a negative slope, block valve or cap the end for draining and have it threaded so i could attach a water hose and reverse fill it.

Now is 12x12 too small because i'm showing 4 tortoises or is it too small for even 1?

 

[ZEROPILOT]

12' by 12' will be too small for 4 adult Redfoot.
Might I suggest that you think about adding sleeping boxes to your eventual pen that AD space by cutting through a wall, placing a wind flap made of rubber attached at the top and then attaching the sleep "house/es to the outside of the enclosure. Redfoot spend a great deal of time relaxing. Especially if it gets very hot. If you had a sleeping box or two, or three....Then the central portion would become an exercise yard and eating area.
Your footage would be increased dramatically.
I keep four adult RF in an enclosure that is roughly 12.5' x 28.5'. There are two ponds, three areas to retreat from the sun and another two sleep/rest areas bolted to the exterior. They ad another 10 square feet. There are also valves to blast clean and fill the ponds and a misting system that can be left on a timer and timers for the sleep houses to work the heat lamps when they are needed.
I have a video up on YOUTUBE called "Redfoot pen Florida style".
There are much fancier and larger pens than mine, but I can say that this work for four adults.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Many of these kinds of ideas are species specific. If it were four redfoots I'd say you have enough space. Keep the pond shallow with very gentle slopping sides.

A few examples to consider based on conversations with other tortoise keepers.

Forsten's tortoises will surely try to kill each other in that size space, but some breeders keep a groups of four in a 4 x 8 foot indoor enclosure with no carnage and successful reproduction.

Pancakes wouldn't know what to do with all that space, and don't need a pond.

Sulcatas would likely find so small a space close to what might be considered cruel.

So what species are you thinking about, you presume to know they will need a misting system, why?

Where are you located. You did say this would be outside, outside in Alaska or outside in Costa Rica?

Like a house plan, who will live there and where will the house be built?

You are asking alot of people to answer your question about the suitability of an enclosure with two really key bits of information missing.

 

[JHat]

Sorry i'm noticing from the responses i need to give more information.

I live in southeast texas (i thought this was showing up on my info) its always humid and generally hot.

I only have 1 Redfoot that is 4-5 inches. i don't have any firm plans on obtaining more tortoises but i did want to leave that option open.

 

[JHat]

12' by 12' will be too small for 4 adult Redfoot.
Might I suggest that you think about adding sleeping boxes to your eventual pen that AD space by cutting through a wall, placing a wind flap made of rubber attached at the top and then attaching the sleep "house/es to the outside of the enclosure. Redfoot spend a great deal of time relaxing. Especially if it gets very hot. If you had a sleeping box or two, or three....Then the central portion would become an exercise yard and eating area.
Your footage would be increased dramatically.
I keep four adult RF in an enclosure that is roughly 12.5' x 28.5'. There are two ponds, three areas to retreat from the sun and another two sleep/rest areas bolted to the exterior. They ad another 10 square feet. There are also valves to blast clean and fill the ponds and a misting system that can be left on a timer and timers for the sleep houses to work the heat lamps when they are needed.
I have a video up on YOUTUBE called "Redfoot pen Florida style".
There are much fancier and larger pens than mine, but I can say that this work for four adults.

I definitely want to add some sleep boxes especially for winter time just to stay warm i will check out your video

 

[JHat]

So what species are you thinking about, you presume to know they will need a misting system, why?

Where are you located. You did say this would be outside, outside in Alaska or outside in Costa Rica?

Like a house plan, who will live there and where will the house be built?

You are asking alot of people to answer your question about the suitability of an enclosure with two really key bits of information missing.

It's a Redfoot enclosure.

I'm located in Deer Park, Texas it's southeast of Houston. So we have very humid weather, but in July and August temps can get in the 100s so misting plus shade would keep it in the low 90s during the heat of the day.

Currently only have a young redfoot ~5", but contemplating on expanding.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Sorry i'm noticing from the responses i need to give more information.

I live in southeast texas (i thought this was showing up on my info) its always humid and generally hot.

I only have 1 Redfoot that is 4-5 inches. i don't have any firm plans on obtaining more tortoises but i did want to leave that option open.

ZeroPilot's video is good to see how different ideas can be incorporated into the overall plan. The idea of having the hide boxes outside of the main enclosure with their own access is excellent. I do that to some extent with my Manoria.

I tend to consider a more heavily planted enclosure would be good than what is in that video, but to be fair, it is difficult to maintain plants in enclosures with tortoises. I think there should be areas so densely planted the tortoises struggle a bit to force themselves in between of underneath. For me with the Manouria I used pruned palm fronds "planted" in post holes. The tortoises have knocked a few over, but they really like to push up under the foliage, even the dead palm fronds. It allows the females to be out and away from the male. Sunlight reaches the soil surface here and there in the palm frond forest, so they can sprawl out and bask as well, protected from the male and the things they think they need protection from.

I would have a third to half the 'floor of soil' elevated the depth of the pond. Then the pond can be drained into a catchment area where grass will grow super well. So if the pond is four inches deep, make an area about twice the size of the pond four inches higher. Put the pond in that area. Now when you drain it, drain it into the area you scarped the soil from. That area will be very wet soil and some plants, probably grass, will grow exceptionally well there and be sorta swampy.

This adds some little topography, instead of all flat, gets you a cleanable pond, and a very wet to swampy area. Many tortoises seem to like a bit of a swampy area. This would then give three elevations all only about four inches different from each other, the area you don't do anything with, a slightly elevated area, and a slightly lower area. This along with plants will make the 12 x 12 very diverse and make it so average size redfoots (10 to 14 inches) would not likely see each other everyday if they didn't want to all wander about at the same time.

By dense plants I mean put a group of hibiscus (as an example) on one foot centers. 15 plants would then be in an area 3 x 5. Use a grape vine on the ground, not trellised. It will spread around. Coastal Silkworms sell dwarf mulberry, and they are indeed dwarf. Four or five of these can be put on an opposite side from the hibiscus. Wood violets, spider plants, some ferns planted all over. You can put plants near the entry (to the side) of the hide boxes, and the tortoises will tend to spend time near but not in the entry way.

The Manouria I have have spent much time with their head sticking out of the door to their night house assessing what they want to do. I put some palm fronds there as well and now they come out and survey the enclosure from the 'hide' of the palm fronds, but don't jam up the door anymore.

 

[JHat]

Thank you Will, and Zero,

I will definitely be incorporating the topography, all the planting ideas mentioned, and the sleep box idea from the video.

Is that just a heater or is there a light in the fixture of the sleep box?

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Thank you Will, and Zero,

I will definitely be incorporating the topography, all the planting ideas mentioned, and the sleep box idea from the video.

Is that just a heater or is there a light in the fixture of the sleep box?

Those are 60 watt "black" heat lamps.
60 watts is enough here in So. FLA. With the wind flaps and closed top door, it'll pull the temps up quite a bit inside there.
And the faint glow let's me know they are on at night without me having to open it all up.
It's a very faint light.

 

[theguy67]

I'm not entirely sure of your available land, or other necessary resources, but if you wish to have a long term project with additional tortoises in the future, your future self will thank you for going as big as possible. My enclosure is roughly 30'x20' and I wish it was bigger at times. It also does not have a cover, but the walls are 5'5''.

Also, a 4' pond is quite large for a 12x12 enclosure. I don't think mine is even that big, unless you include the stream.


Have you considered indoor housing for harsh winters? It may not freeze frequently south of Houston, but I always bring mine in when temps are below 60 for an extended period of time.

 

[JHat]

I'm not entirely sure of your available land, or other necessary resources, but if you wish to have a long term project with additional tortoises in the future, your future self will thank you for going as big as possible. My enclosure is roughly 30'x20' and I wish it was bigger at times. It also does not have a cover, but the walls are 5'5''.

Also, a 4' pond is quite large for a 12x12 enclosure. I don't think mine is even that big, unless you include the stream.


Have you considered indoor housing for harsh winters? It may not freeze frequently south of Houston, but I always bring mine in when temps are below 60 for an extended period of time.

Oddly enough when I started modeling the pictures in the original post I started with 8x8 decided it was probably too small for the future (probably fine for the one 5" red foot I have currently). Now my thoughts are to build the perimeter out of 2x12s with 4x4 posts 12' apart center to center so that I can expand when needed. And recently after talking on this forum I'm thinking of starting with a 12x24. I don't have a huge backyard I would say it's roughly 50x25.

For the winters I was planning on having a heated out door enclosed space. But I could do something inside.

 

[theguy67]

Oddly enough when I started modeling the pictures in the original post I started with 8x8 decided it was probably too small for the future (probably fine for the one 5" red foot I have currently). Now my thoughts are to build the perimeter out of 2x12s with 4x4 posts 12' apart center to center so that I can expand when needed. And recently after talking on this forum I'm thinking of starting with a 12x24. I don't have a huge backyard I would say it's roughly 50x25.

For the winters I was planning on having a heated out door enclosed space. But I could do something inside.

This may sound crazy, but would it be possible to secure the whole back yard for day time use? This might not be possible due to potential hazards of them not being in a more enclosed place (dogs, neighbors,kids, etc.), although 50x25 is not much room to keep up with, compared to the yards I grew up with. You could landscape the yard so its less like a tortoise enclosure, and more like a backyard living space with pond, and a garden so its still of use to you for outdoor living. Its something to think about, although I'm sure its already crossed your mind.

I say go for the smaller enclosure 12x12, or what ever demisions you think best for now, but consider the possibilities for the future.

Here's mine. http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/redfoot-enclosure-update.126407/

 

[JHat]

This may sound crazy, but would it be possible to secure the whole back yard for day time use? This might not be possible due to potential hazards of them not being in a more enclosed place (dogs, neighbors,kids, etc.), although 50x25 is not much room to keep up with, compared to the yards I grew up with. You could landscape the yard so its less like a tortoise enclosure, and more like a backyard living space with pond, and a garden so its still of use to you for outdoor living. Its something to think about, although I'm sure its already crossed your mind.

I say go for the smaller enclosure 12x12, or what ever demisions you think best for now, but consider the possibilities for the future.

Here's mine. http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/redfoot-enclosure-update.126407/

I just bought this house 6ish months ago (it was a new build) so the backyard is basically a fenced off blank slate. So it's not crazy at all and when I'm home and out there I would definitely let him/them have full access to the yard.

 

[theguy67]

I just bought this house 6ish months ago (it was a new build) so the backyard is basically a fenced off blank slate. So it's not crazy at all and when I'm home and out there I would definitely let him/them have full access to the yard.

Well its good that you do have the option. Mine are kept out in the country, so the only thing I have to worry about is wildlife, as we don't have any neighbors. Mine are always out, when weather permits, whether someone is home or not. Although, it becomes complicated as each house is going to be different.

 

[JHat]

Well its good that you do have the option. Mine are kept out in the country, so the only thing I have to worry about is wildlife, as we don't have any neighbors. Mine are always out, when weather permits, whether someone is home or not. Although, it becomes complicated as each house is going to be different.

I'd have to test it out I wouldn't want him to end up in a neighbors yard or worse the street since our fence just barely touches the gate.

That box is 8x4 I just move it to where weeds or sun/shade is throughout the day.

 

[theguy67]

I'd have to test it out I wouldn't want him to end up in a neighbors yard or worse the street since our fence just barely touches the gate. View attachment 177472

That box is 8x4 I just move it to where weeds or sun/shade is throughout the day.

That is the type of setup I had imagined, with neighbors back to back. It could work, even if you had to lock them up in a smaller enclosure when needed. You would just have to provide a secure perimeter, underground and above. As for a gate that leads out of the yard, I would just put 2 boards at the bottom that you would have to step over. That's how my gate is, to get inside the pen. Of course, all of these ideas I am brainstorming are coming from the perspective of an owner of 5 adult red foots. You have plenty of room and time to start planning for a nice sized enclosure.