Ornate Woods

[Irwin4530]

Does anyone keep these?
I would love to get into this species but am not sure
where to find a good breeder....tutle supply/turtle stop and king snake have limited offerings for now.

 

[DanaLachney]

Try turtleshack.com I believe they sell them

 

[joshtaylor123]

Don't use turtleshack.com they freeze their babies so they can sell them in the winter months..

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

Don't use turtleshack.com they freeze their babies so they can sell them in the winter months..

But wouldn't that kill them?

 

[joshtaylor123]

No. Once they thaw out they are just how they froze, but the loose a lot of nutrients

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

No. Once they thaw out they are just how they froze, but the loose a lot of nutrients

Where did you get that information, please? There are very few organisms that can survive complete freezing, because once ice crystals form in your body, they lyse cells and destroy tissue. I know of one species of northern frog that can survive being frozen. Some Testudo species may have some frost tolerance, but that's it. I can't imagine any dealer freezing his turtles, because they would either die, or else be seriously damaged.

 

[joshtaylor123]

Maybe this is for painted turtles only. Because my friend has ordered painted ones from there and they were frozen.. Also another friend moved and in the process the water froze around him and when it melted the turtle was acting normal. Im not sure about terrestrial turtles though. Sorry if I confused you. But I would trust someone who freezes any kind of turtle to handle one I was going to buy. But try turtlesource.com I have had no trouble with them

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

Maybe this is for painted turtles only. Because my friend has ordered painted ones from there and they were frozen.. Also another friend moved and in the process the water froze around him and when it melted the turtle was acting normal. Im not sure about terrestrial turtles though. Sorry if I confused you. But I would trust someone who freezes any kind of turtle to handle one I was going to buy. But try turtlesource.com I have had no trouble with them

A few cold-blooded animals (fish, amphibians, and reptiles) have some tolerance to freezing. The way they do this is by having very high concentrations of sugars or proteins in their blood. That reduces the temperature at which water freezes (the same thing happens in seawater). In this way, the animal can withstand very low temperatures, without ice actually forming in its body, and therefore without suffering damage.

As I said, some people think Testudo tortoises (Russians, Hermanns, and Ibera Greeks) may have that kind of system. It's known that some Antarctic fish have it. As for amphibians, as I said, I know of one species of frog that can actually freeze solid - not just frost, but actually frozen solid - without any ill effects. Nobody knows how they do this, because that's much more than the "freezing point depression" I described above; it's actual freezing, and they're fine. An extremely rare and valuable adaptation. If a turtle or tortoise suffers frost damage, it could survive, but with some injury or even permanent disability.

Back to turtles. Painted turtles and sliders do brumate (hibernate), so I wouldn't be surprised if they have elevated levels of sugars in their blood, to keep them from freezing the way Testudo tortoises are thought to have. However, if they were to freeze, then just like a tortoise, they would be injured or killed. Now, if only the water around the turtle freezes, then the turtle itself might not freeze, in which case it would be fine. In fact, it's probably normal for that to happen during the winter. It's only if the turtle's body itself gets ice crystals in it that problems appear.

Now, based on your friend's experience of receiving frozen turtles from TurtleShack.com, you have claimed that TurtleShack.com intentionally freezes baby pond turtles for sale during the winter. I don't represent TurtleShack.com one way or the other, nor have I even purchased anything from them at this point. However, my guess is that these are probably accidents of shipping. Packages transported in airplanes can freeze unless precautions are taken to prevent that. As I said, unless this company knows nothing about turtle biology (which I doubt), then they must realize that a frozen turtle (or a frozen anything except that one type of frog) will surely die. Maybe they don't insulate their packages well. I don't know if that's the case or not, but if it is, then that would definitely be a big problem, and a good reason to shop elsewhere. However, I really doubt this was done intentionally. If anything, it was an accident, and probably one for which your friend could issue a complaint and get a refund or a credit.

 

[Benjamin]

I have heard of this process. The turtles are not frozen, they are kept cold, say 40F.
I do know that painted turtles are know to freeze in the nest overwinter.
This said I have heard negative things in regards to turtleshack.
There are several folk who breed species of rhinnoclemys(spelling?) Keep on the lookout.

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

Fascinating video from the BBC's David Attenborough, showing baby painted turtles surviving frost in the winter:

[video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZJy9NwNLYI[/video]

Baby painted turtles survive freezing for a few days:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15295689
http://www.biology-online.org/artic...ce_metabolism/winter_life_painted_turtle.html

See also:
http://www.sbaa.ca/projects.asp?cn=316
http://www.units.muohio.edu/cryolab/projects/hatchlingturtle.htm
http://www.tortoise.org/archives/chrysemy.html
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1095643302002647

Photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ironammonite/2243703033/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ironammonite/2243702971/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ironammonite/2243702929/

 

[Benjamin]

Fascinating video from the BBC's David Attenborough, showing baby painted turtles surviving frost in the winter:

[video=youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZJy9NwNLYI[/video]

Baby painted turtles survive freezing for a few days:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15295689
http://www.biology-online.org/artic...ce_metabolism/winter_life_painted_turtle.html

See also:
http://www.sbaa.ca/projects.asp?cn=316
http://www.units.muohio.edu/cryolab/projects/hatchlingturtle.htm
http://www.tortoise.org/archives/chrysemy.html
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1095643302002647

Photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ironammonite/2243703033/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ironammonite/2243702971/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ironammonite/2243702929/

Saw that last week.
It is very interesting.

 

[Irwin4530]

VERY COOL!



anyone know a more reputable place to get OWT's?

 

[dmmj]

I wouldn't use turtleshack. I Have had family member use them and they, well lets just say they don't practice good husbandry. I don't want to say more due to any possible legal action that may be taken against me for slander. Let's just say your money would be spent better elsewhere.

 

[terryo]

I've had EPT for years, and some hatchlings have over-Wintered in the pond, and then I would find them in the Spring, but...they did not freeze...they hibernated. If they froze, they would die. I have never heard such a thing.

 

[EricIvins]

A few things here.......

One - Goodluck finding Ornates.......You see limited offereings because they are just that - limited.......Few people breed them, and the market has been monopolized on adult Imports for the past few years now........High demand = very little supply......

Two - Nobody freezes their Turtles.......The farms keep them cold, as in brumation cold, to keep the supply going as long as they can......These Turtles are perfectly fine if they are given proper husbandry when they are warmed up.......These are North American Turtles though, who are built to do this........Ornates ARE NOT!

Third - Research Turtleshack.........

 

[Turtleswagg]

ill sell one to you, i have a really healthy female (i think). email me at [email protected] for pictures

 

[Saloli]

The frog you are talking about is

---

The frog you are talking about is Lithobates sylvaticus American Wood Frog. They can withstand freezing so can some insects. Hatchling painted turtles are freeze tolerant which means they can withstand minor freezing but are better characterized as capable of supercooling (having body temperatures well below the normal freezing temperature for freshwater). I'm not aware if any other species of turtles being capable of super cooling. Though other species that spend winter dormancy on land may also be capable of doing so.