One last try for help from you guys..

[NancKj]

Hi,
Posted a long message a couple of weeks ago asking for help with a CDT. Yvonne was kind enough to suggest something to do, but I had already tried that. So here goes,
CDT with runny (clear) nose. Will NOT come out of his hide. I have to pull him out daily. Then I soak him. Daily. Then, he will walk around and eat. He is eating well, as usual. He had a course of 5 antibiotic/steroid nose lavages. Doc said that was enough. There is zero inprovement. He has been peeing and pooping.
Mouth swab culture negative for mycoplasma, but a couple other bacteria were identified.
He has not had xrays or bloodwork or systemic antibiotics. He sounds congested sometimes, like now in his soak.
Something is not right. How should I proceed? I have done all the usual. Vet insists he will be okay. 2 months now. My number one concern is his not wanting to come out. He acts like he is cold but it is 100 degrees daytime here. Again, he looks "fine" after I pull him out and soak him.
What are we (me and 2 vets), missing here??

 

[Yvonne G]

I don't think it's anything antibiotics would cure. In my opinion it's stress. What has your weather been like. Tortoises estivate during periods of extra hot weather, choosing to stay in their burrow until it cools a bit up topside.

I think you should just keep getting him out for the soaks and feeding and hopefully he'll come around and stop worrying you.

 

[NancKj]

I very much appreciate your quick reply Yvonne. The summer here in San Fernando Valley got off to a slow start, but now seems pretty much like it always is. My "main" exotic vet, and he is a good one, told me pretty much exactly what you just said! He said all the torts around here are acting weird because of weather. I have read many many of your posts on CDTs and really value your experience and opinion. So, while I was 2nd guessing my vet, I will not 2nd guess you, and I will continue as you suggest. Thank you again!!

 

[ZEROPILOT]

My location is on the other side of the nation. But the issue sounds the same.
I haven't seen ANY of my currently 4 Redfoot tortoises during the daytime in several weeks.
They're OK. And they're eating.
The heat is upsetting them.
I'm compensating with water sprinklers and shade cloth. But I still have to pull them out of their hides to do an inspection.
They also all have watery eyes. Which I only see during the summer.

 

[NancKj]

Thanks ZeroPilot! This is all very interesting. I totally believe now that something is affecting them... But here, at least, we have not had, so far, a partucularly hot summer. But it IS something! Smoke in the atmosphere? I wonder how many fellow tort owners, with outside habitats, are noticing worrying/unusual behavior??

 

[SinLA]

Thanks ZeroPilot! This is all very interesting. I totally believe now that something is affecting them... But here, at least, we have not had, so far, a partucularly hot summer. But it IS something! Smoke in the atmosphere? I wonder how many fellow tort owners, with outside habitats, are noticing worrying/unusual behavior??

Sorry if you said this already, but how old and how long have you had him?

I'm also in SFV (Burbank) We had a super long cloudy winter a week or so of nice weather, and then BOOM 90 degrees and some scorchers. Maybe the long winter just mucked up his internal clock?

 

[Cathie G]

Thanks ZeroPilot! This is all very interesting. I totally believe now that something is affecting them... But here, at least, we have not had, so far, a partucularly hot summer. But it IS something! Smoke in the atmosphere? I wonder how many fellow tort owners, with outside habitats, are noticing worrying/unusual behavior??

I keep my little Russian inside during air quality allerts due to the Canadian smoke blowing down to my area. Just for GP. There's no sunshine during that anyway so why risk it.

 

[Tom]

Hi,
Posted a long message a couple of weeks ago asking for help with a CDT. Yvonne was kind enough to suggest something to do, but I had already tried that. So here goes,
CDT with runny (clear) nose. Will NOT come out of his hide. I have to pull him out daily. Then I soak him. Daily. Then, he will walk around and eat. He is eating well, as usual. He had a course of 5 antibiotic/steroid nose lavages. Doc said that was enough. There is zero inprovement. He has been peeing and pooping.
Mouth swab culture negative for mycoplasma, but a couple other bacteria were identified.
He has not had xrays or bloodwork or systemic antibiotics. He sounds congested sometimes, like now in his soak.
Something is not right. How should I proceed? I have done all the usual. Vet insists he will be okay. 2 months now. My number one concern is his not wanting to come out. He acts like he is cold but it is 100 degrees daytime here. Again, he looks "fine" after I pull him out and soak him.
What are we (me and 2 vets), missing here??

Where is the hide and what kind of hide is it? Sometimes keeping them a little warmer at night helps.

Does he have an underground burrow to escape the daytime heat? What is the temperature during the day inside the hide?

 

[wellington]

I don't have or know much about CDT, but it's been unusually hot for a long time here in Chicago than a normal summer. My leopards and Russian come out early before it's too hot and then back in until the sun is farther to the west.
Yours not wanting to come out when it's so hot sounds about right for what tortoises do in the hottest part of the day. Most mornings are not as hot as this summer has been all over.
If everything else with him seems fine, eating, pooping, etc, I too think you are worried more than needed.
Just keep a closer eye on him than normal, that nothing else changes for the bad.

 

[wellington]

Hi,
Posted a long message a couple of weeks ago asking for help with a CDT. Yvonne was kind enough to suggest something to do, but I had already tried that. So here goes,
CDT with runny (clear) nose. Will NOT come out of his hide. I have to pull him out daily. Then I soak him. Daily. Then, he will walk around and eat. He is eating well, as usual. He had a course of 5 antibiotic/steroid nose lavages. Doc said that was enough. There is zero inprovement. He has been peeing and pooping.
Mouth swab culture negative for mycoplasma, but a couple other bacteria were identified.
He has not had xrays or bloodwork or systemic antibiotics. He sounds congested sometimes, like now in his soak.
Something is not right. How should I proceed? I have done all the usual. Vet insists he will be okay. 2 months now. My number one concern is his not wanting to come out. He acts like he is cold but it is 100 degrees daytime here. Again, he looks "fine" after I pull him out and soak him.
What are we (me and 2 vets), missing here??

Just a heads up. Sometimes people don't post on a thread once someone with years of experience and great advice like Yvonne, has answered a thread. Some still will if they have a different opinion or idea, but otherwise they will just give Yvonne's post a thumbs up/ like.

 

[Yvonne G]

Just a heads up. Sometimes people don't post on a thread once someone with years of experience and great advice like Yvonne, has answered a thread. Some still will if they have a different opinion or idea, but otherwise they will just give Yvonne's post a thumbs up/ like.

That's why a lot of times I wait for others to post before I say something. It's helpful to get a lot of opinions and different things for the OP to try.

 

[NancKj]

I don't have or know much about CDT, but it's been unusually hot for a long time here in Chicago than a normal summer. My leopards and Russian come out early before it's too hot and then back in until the sun is farther to the west.
Yours not wanting to come out when it's so hot sounds about right for what tortoises do in the hottest part of the day. Most mornings are not as hot as this summer has been all over.
If everything else with him seems fine, eating, pooping, etc, I too think you are worried more than needed.
Just keep a closer eye on him than normal, that nothing else changes for the bad.

Thank you! I get the not wanting to come out in the middle of the day, it is the not coming out at all that bothers me a bit, not even in cool of morning, or when I am watering in his enclosure

 

[NancKj]

That's why a lot of times I wait for others to post before I say something. It's helpful to get a lot of opinions and different things for the OP to try.

I understand now!! I appreciate any advice you guys give me

 

[NancKj]

Where is the hide and what kind of hide is it? Sometimes keeping them a little warmer at night helps.

Does he have an underground burrow to escape the daytime heat? What is the temperature during the day inside the hide?

It is outside but up against a house wall. Cement block with dirt in hollow spaces of the blocks. Dirt floor. Roof is plywood, the insulation panels, then more plywood and a layer of dirt, then a trellis frame covered with shade material on top. The structure is also under an umbrella. In summer, temp stays pretty constant between 75 and 78 inside the hide, day and night. It got up to 80 recently when outside temps were 104. I tried to make it an aboveground burrow, with the dirt and layers.
In his enclosure he has "deep shade" with bushes and grape vines under umbrellas and shade cloth
Anything I can do better for him? I did bring him in at night for a week, keeping the temp at 85 degress, but it did not make any difference that I could see.
Have had him 27 years so I do know his habits! I did get a new CDT this spring, who lives in adjacent pen, but thus is not new to him, just a different tort. Same sex as previous one.

 

[NancKj]

Sorry if you said this already, but how old and how long have you had him?

I'm also in SFV (Burbank) We had a super long cloudy winter a week or so of nice weather, and then BOOM 90 degrees and some scorchers. Maybe the long winter just mucked up his internal clock?

Hi fellow Valley Girl!
I do not know his age, but I have had him about 25 years, the last 11 of those right here in this house in SFV.
I did wonder about the long cloudy winter messing him up! I actually had to take him out of brumation before he fully "woke up", because it was just going on too long. I kept him in a room in the house for 2 or 3 weeks until it warmed up enough to go outside....and then I think it got chilly again and I had to bring him back in for another several days...hmmm. Are your torts acting funny?

 

[SinLA]

maybe this new neighbor tort intimidates yours even though they aren’t in the same pen? Maybe it’s depressed by the change?

 

[SinLA]

Hi fellow Valley Girl!
I do not know his age, but I have had him about 25 years, the last 11 of those right here in this house in SFV.
I did wonder about the long cloudy winter messing him up! I actually had to take him out of brumation before he fully "woke up", because it was just going on too long. I kept him in a room in the house for 2 or 3 weeks until it warmed up enough to go outside....and then I think it got chilly again and I had to bring him back in for another several days...hmmm. Are your torts acting funny?

This was my first full year with him so I can’t compare, and I didn’t let him brumate this year since it was our first, but he seems pretty normal

 

[NancKj]

This was my first full year with him so I can’t compare, and I didn’t let him brumate this year since it was our first, but he seems pretty normal

Can you please advise me, when you have time, how you personally kept him from brumating?? Just in case I have to do the same for any reason. I have a spare room in my house. Thank you!

 

[Tom]

It is outside but up against a house wall. Cement block with dirt in hollow spaces of the blocks. Dirt floor. Roof is plywood, the insulation panels, then more plywood and a layer of dirt, then a trellis frame covered with shade material on top. The structure is also under an umbrella. In summer, temp stays pretty constant between 75 and 78 inside the hide, day and night. It got up to 80 recently when outside temps were 104. I tried to make it an aboveground burrow, with the dirt and layers.
In his enclosure he has "deep shade" with bushes and grape vines under umbrellas and shade cloth
Anything I can do better for him? I did bring him in at night for a week, keeping the temp at 85 degress, but it did not make any difference that I could see.
Have had him 27 years so I do know his habits! I did get a new CDT this spring, who lives in adjacent pen, but thus is not new to him, just a different tort. Same sex as previous one.

The burrow temps sound great.

When you brought him "in", what did that entail? I'm guessing into your house, but how was he housed in there? What temps? What heating and lighting equipment?

 

[SinLA]

Can you please advise me, when you have time, how you personally kept him from brumating?? Just in case I have to do the same for any reason. I have a spare room in my house. Thank you!

Have you read this, it might help: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/toms-brumation-thread.201823/

I mainly made sure his temps were kept up (70s/80s) and I took him out and soaked him regularly and offered him food.

I was actually PLANNING on brumating him, and I started the process of denying him food and lowering his temps for about a month when my refrigerator broke over Thanksgiving (thank god he wasn't in it yet) and by the time I got a new one delivered, I decided to feed him again and keep him up.

But I have a Russian so he's easier to keep enclosed inside. He did go into kind of a state of torpor where all he wanted to do was be semi-sleepy, but he still did eat and move around a bit.