Occasional agressive behavior in two (almost) yearlings

[DesertGirl12]

I have two CDTs that are approaching a year old that I have had since last September. They are occasionally nipping at each others legs or shell when stomping around their tort table. They also occasionally exhibited this behavior when I first got them (particularly the younger one). I thought perhaps it was a sibling rivalry thing but now wonder. Since I don't know their sex am I to assume the behavior indicates two males or do torts display sibling rivalry or is it just territorial behavior? Neither one does it more than the other and it isn't happening very often. They always go in the hide and snuggle together and when basking they are often found nose to nose except when they sprawl as in photo. They have been together their entire lives with me, although we have been going to bigger boxes. I am almost finished with their "day" time playground to stomp in. (Having problems with ants.)

Anyway, is there anyone who has raised or is raising CDTs from hatchlings that can help me know if I should already separate them even though I do not know their sex? Since they were hatched at different times it is possible they are not both the same sex? At this young age, can they harm each other?

One more thing, there is no rivalry shown at the water dish or at the food dish, mostly when they come head to head or one is in the way of the other.
Thank you!

 

[Tom]

Tortoises should not be kept in pairs. DTs especially are very territorial and scrappy. I'm surprised you haven't had major issue or injuries by this point.

They need to be separated ASAP. You are seeing signs of aggression everywhere, but you don't recognize tortoise aggression. That face to face business is overt tortoise hostility. It is the equivalent of a human getting in your face and screaming, "GET OUT OF MY TERRITORY!!!" In addition, the biting should make this obvious too...

Here are some threads to help illustrate the point.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...together-a-lesson-learned-the-hard-way.94114/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/bad-day-for-baby.114328/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/pairs.34837/

Glad you are here and glad you asked.

 

[Gillian M]

A very warm welcome to the forum.

 

[johnsonnboswell]

Tortoises don't snuggle. They just try to occupy the same space. The only way to deal with aggression - which is what you've described - is to separate them. Do it before there is blood or worse injury or death.

 

[DesertGirl12]

Tortoises should not be kept in pairs. DTs especially are very territorial and scrappy. I'm surprised you haven't had major issue or injuries by this point.

They need to be separated ASAP. You are seeing signs of aggression everywhere, but you don't recognize tortoise aggression. That face to face business is overt tortoise hostility. It is the equivalent of a human getting in your face and screaming, "GET OUT OF MY TERRITORY!!!" In addition, the biting should make this obvious too...

Here are some threads to help illustrate the point.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread...together-a-lesson-learned-the-hard-way.94114/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/bad-day-for-baby.114328/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/pairs.34837/

Glad you are here and glad you asked.

Thank you for your information and threads. Its clear I have been fortunate no one is hurt. I always intended them to be separated down the line. I did not get them to be buddies. I thought I had time since they were young. I tried to find threads like these but didn't find them in my searches. Of course, I didn't know of the forum until long after I had my torts. My intentions are fully their well-being. I thought I was doing the right thing by helping someone whose torts had bred and couldn't keep these. I will be separating them immediately. I am glad I asked also. I wish no harm to any small creature.

 

[DawnH]

Thank you for your information and threads. Its clear I have been fortunate no one is hurt. I always intended them to be separated down the line. I did not get them to be buddies. I thought I had time since they were young. I tried to find threads like these but didn't find them in my searches. Of course, I didn't know of the forum until long after I had my torts. My intentions are fully their well-being. I thought I was doing the right thing by helping someone whose torts had bred and couldn't keep these. I will be separating them immediately. I am glad I asked also. I wish no harm to any small creature.

You are in a great place! I've been here almost two years and learn something new every day. WELCOME!

 

[MichiganFrog]

We just had to separate our two male sulcatas that are about 3.5 years old. Just one of the two was initiating the aggression, but we decided to nip it in the bud by dividing the yard with a cinder block wall. The picture below shows the new wall dividing the back yard in two.

 

[Tom]

Thank you for your information and threads. Its clear I have been fortunate no one is hurt. I always intended them to be separated down the line. I did not get them to be buddies. I thought I had time since they were young. I tried to find threads like these but didn't find them in my searches. Of course, I didn't know of the forum until long after I had my torts. My intentions are fully their well-being. I thought I was doing the right thing by helping someone whose torts had bred and couldn't keep these. I will be separating them immediately. I am glad I asked also. I wish no harm to any small creature.

Well I'm really glad we were able to answer your questions. You have some nice looking tortoises there too. I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting to see more pics.

Here are some more threads you might find helpful:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

These are written for russians, but care for these two species is essentially the same in our area:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/semi-underground-russian-box.98590/

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Kathleen:

You've been given the answer you need, but I'd like to add something in another direction. Do you notice how sort of not smooth your babies' carapace seems? Not really pyramided, but sort of rough-looking? That can be helped to smooth out if you change your substrate to something you can moisten. The babies are very dry and will benefit from a bit more moisture in their environment.

 

[DesertGirl12]

Hi Kathleen:

You've been given the answer you need, but I'd like to add something in another direction. Do you notice how sort of not smooth your babies' carapace seems? Not really pyramided, but sort of rough-looking? That can be helped to smooth out if you change your substrate to something you can moisten. The babies are very dry and will benefit from a bit more moisture in their environment.

Thank you. I figured since I was splitting them up, I would go to the orchid bark with the change out. I wasn't sure if I was seeing something wrong or not. I do still soak them every other day or so and I do have sphagnum moss underneath that I ad moisture to. So you confirm that a change is needed. Thanks again.

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

You've come here willing to listen and learn and do the best for your two very beautiful tortoises.
Fair play, your torts clearly have a caring mom.

 

[DesertGirl12]

You've come here willing to listen and learn and do the best for your two very beautiful tortoises.
Fair play, your torts clearly have a caring mom.

Thank you. I appreciate your words of encouragement and they convey my own intentions.