NO POOP in 3 WEEKS!!! HAAAALP!!!!

For Love of Everything Shell

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pictures now? I tried from my phone...
and how are they keeping him... I had them show me the whole facility while they gave Bob his first soak, because they also do animal boarding soooooo I wanted to see the set up. For reptiles it is a small room that is very warm, smaller glass enclosures for lizards and such and then on the ground level they had two larger metal sided kennels with standard kennel door. He also showed me the stockpile of different heat lamps and uv bulbs and that they set each reptile up with what they need... On Sunday they are closed though, but a tech still goes in to administer meds or food to whomever needs it. They also said the vet took him out for a walk on Friday to try and get him to poop, and they have told me he has been receiving soaks and subcutaneous fluids, but still no change... am I missing something?
 

Reptilony

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and how are they keeping him... I had them show me the whole facility while they gave Bob his first soak, because they also do animal boarding soooooo I wanted to see the set up. For reptiles it is a small room that is very warm, smaller glass enclosures for lizards and such and then on the ground level they had two larger metal sided kennels with standard kennel door. He also showed me the stockpile of different heat lamps and uv bulbs and that they set each reptile up with what they need... On Sunday they are closed though, but a tech still goes in to administer meds or food to whomever needs it. They also said the vet took him out for a walk on Friday to try and get him to poop, and they have told me he has been receiving soaks and subcutaneous fluids, but still no change... am I missing something?

It looks better than i expected, what are they feeding him?
 

For Love of Everything Shell

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It looks better than i expected, what are they feeding him?
...yes they do a lot of birds and reptiles apparently. They had a whole room full of bird cages with sheets draped over them for bed time.

Back to Bob: The first few days it was discussed that he would not be offered food since he is not moving anything through, but then today on the phone the tech said they offered him kale (they have it on hand for rabbits) but he refused it. Which I am glad he refused it since you all have informed me it is not a good choice. I swear every food option available from a grocery eventually gets nixed from the list!

Could he have a parasite that doesn't show up on smear test if the vet didn't have a good poop sample? I mean he said he didn't have any pin worms either? That does not sound correct to me because he had a healthy level of them 2 years ago.

I also just read a few threads about flagellates and nematodes... but it doesn't seem that these cause constipation, but do cause lack of proper digestion which mixed with they hay....? Ahhhh I am going crazy trying to figure this out
There are snails everywhere in NOLA and it is the rainy season, he easily could have eaten one of their eggs if it was on a blade of grass he snagged... I have never seen him actually eat snails or worms in the past, but he does like to nibble on my feet or ankles when he wants more food and stares at my toes like he wants them.... maybe he does go after little critters outside?
 

Reptilony

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you said you did not had the right basking temps, this is very important and how they can digest properly, hopefully the vet knows the right basking temps if they have one basking spot. He may have a stone that’s not passing, he needs long warm soaks in any situation, hopefully they give him that too.
 

Yvonne G

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Just to further explain what Wellington said, scrambling around in a larger tub of water makes the tortoise stressed enough that it moves all the poop out. Put him into the human bath tub with water coming up to the middle of his sides and leave him there. . . for an hour, if that's what it takes.
 

For Love of Everything Shell

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Just to further explain what Wellington said, scrambling around in a larger tub of water makes the tortoise stressed enough that it moves all the poop out. Put him into the human bath tub with water coming up to the middle of his sides and leave him there. . . for an hour, if that's what it takes.

I have been doing soaks in the tub, but only a couple inches of water... (2inches in the deep end of tub, .5 inch in shallow end) I will add more water for next time. Hopefully get lets me take him home tomorrow he has now been with them vet since Thursday with no progression and no answers
 

For Love of Everything Shell

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Just to further explain what Wellington said, scrambling around in a larger tub of water makes the tortoise stressed enough that it moves all the poop out. Put him into the human bath tub with water coming up to the middle of his sides and leave him there. . . for an hour, if that's what it takes.

... keep the water warm, yes?

Or would letting it cool help to easy any swelling he has ? If he slowed down with his walking I could easily drain some water and warm it back up...? Thoughts? I hope to have him home tomorrow to try more soaks... was already doing 2 a day of 30 plus min in the bath tub and mushed up pumpkin with olive oil... plan to offer some watermelon or cucumber tomorrow if he will have it

Are there any pain or anti inflammation Meds that are safe and would help?
 

Moozillion

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I live very near you, in Covington. The Avian and Exotic Animal Hospital in Metairie saved my mud turtle’s life. The docs there are in contact with LSU veterinary school whenever they come up against something they want additional input on.
Your vet actually sounds like they’re doing a lot of right things, but even with humans, it can sometimes help to get a second opinion.
BIG HUG and sending well wishes to your shelled kid.
 

Moozillion

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I see from another thread that you are already using The Avian and Exotic Animal Hospital.
One thing I learned from my mud turtle's experience is that turtles and tortoises do EVERYTHING S-L-O-W-L-Y, including recover from illnesses.
If you haven't already, you could ask Dr. Rich to consult the vet school. When he was treating my turtle, he was the one who brought it up when she didn't respond as expected to the first treatment. He talked to his contacts at the vet school at least twice about my turtle, and was able to turn things around: she recovered fully.
BEST WISHES to you and Bob! :<3:
 

For Love of Everything Shell

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I live very near you, in Covington. The Avian and Exotic Animal Hospital in Metairie saved my mud turtle’s life. The docs there are in contact with LSU veterinary school whenever they come up against something they want additional input on.
Your vet actually sounds like they’re doing a lot of right things, but even with humans, it can sometimes help to get a second opinion.
BIG HUG and sending well wishes to your shelled kid.

That is where Bob[emoji217] is now! And I just called LSU and I am contemplating finding a friend to drive us up there...? (My car is in the shop, when it rains it pours!!!) LSU is 130$ for initial appt, but the dr/student/resident? Sounded like she has pretty good success with tortoise back ends...? I talked with local tech already and still Bob[emoji217] has not pooped, only pee with some urate clumps it sounds like... soooo.... I suppose I should move on to a new office? Maybe try long soaks at home for tonight then find a ride to Baton Rouge tomorrow ?
Local vet said soaks were 10minutes, I explained they needed to be waaaay longer and I was already giving 2 a day of 30 min plus!!! But they are also giving the subcutaneous fluids. This is so frustrating
 

Moozillion

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That is where Bob[emoji217] is now! And I just called LSU and I am contemplating finding a friend to drive us up there...? (My car is in the shop, when it rains it pours!!!) LSU is 130$ for initial appt, but the dr/student/resident? Sounded like she has pretty good success with tortoise back ends...? I talked with local tech already and still Bob[emoji217] has not pooped, only pee with some urate clumps it sounds like... soooo.... I suppose I should move on to a new office? Maybe try long soaks at home for tonight then find a ride to Baton Rouge tomorrow ?
Local vet said soaks were 10minutes, I explained they needed to be waaaay longer and I was already giving 2 a day of 30 min plus!!! But they are also giving the subcutaneous fluids. This is so frustrating
I would express my concerns to Dr. Rich.
When my turtle didn't respond well enough to the first treatment he tried, HE was the one to initiate contact with LSU vet school, and spoke to them twice. He's more than willing to accept suggestions from other docs. It could save you a bundle if he consults with them for you. Just sayin.
 

Moozillion

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It's tough- it's REALLY TOUGH on us when our shelled kids are sick.
I was a nervous wreck for weeks while my Jacques was going through her ordeal.
When I'm anxious, i want answers NOW! and it's hard to know when to switch gears (or switch docs) as opposed to sticking with them.
I don't know what's best for you and your tort, just sharing my experience. :<3:
 

For Love of Everything Shell

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It's tough- it's REALLY TOUGH on us when our shelled kids are sick.
I was a nervous wreck for weeks while my Jacques was going through her ordeal.
When I'm anxious, i want answers NOW! and it's hard to know when to switch gears (or switch docs) as opposed to sticking with them.
I don't know what's best for you and your tort, just sharing my experience. :<3:

Totally agree on the wanting answers now! I am also a wreck!
 

For Love of Everything Shell

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Bob
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Update: tech called this morning saying he got small amount of poop out this morning and asked if I wanted to give permission for X-ray and full blood work so Dr Rich could review and would call me in afternoon. ($300) said yes go ahead ...
Dr. Rich called said good news... he got some poop out about 3cm x 5cm (I want to ask if that was somehow the shape of a single poop aka HUGE or if that is the size of the pile lol... any who... he said it was very high in the Timothy hay/straw, as before, but also some regular poop mixed in.

He also took him out for a walk to see if he was doing any more butt lifting to get more out ... no further pooping was observed ...
X-ray -clear, no seen obstructions, no gas pockets, nothing noticeably wrong.
Full blood work- all good ... kidneys good, CBC good, protein good calcium good ... all forking good !!!! Yayyyyy!!!...

So... they are doing another soak this afternoon and suggests that he can come home tomorrow

I asked him if he suggest I keep him on the high fiber liquid syringe food they have been doing ... he says no that he thinks soft greens will be good just nothing dry fibrous like the hay for a while (I'm not sure I can ever trust damn Timothy hay even though everyone says it is good for them
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)

...the bill is up to about 700$ so that is crappy (full pun intended
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) !!! But obviously I am super excited he is moving things along and in good health!!! He is worth every penny!!! I am going to make some changes to his house in my kitchen to be sure to provide all he needs for this lack of sun climate...it has literally been raining for over 2 straight weeks here in NOLA ... I am solar powered just like Bob and I am strongly contemplating looking for work back in AZ!!!!! until then... artificial it is... Aka indoor uvb and a few other changes. I will post some before and after pics of the changes to his indoor home for advice on how to maximize what we have to work with.

Before I had time to post this update, Dr. Rich calls back just a few minutes ago... with his new conclusions!
Apparently, he has been watching Bob closely while in the soaks...(back end habits obviously) He explained how Bob straightens his legs all the way up when he is going to push and that his tail never actually comes out of his shell. He thinks that because the space between his tail notch and his carapace, more specifically...I believe it is called the supracaudal is overgrown. To me it is just what Bob's butt is shaped like and since he is the only tortoise I have, I can't really compare the inner curvature of the supracaudal to anyone else's! Also his tail makes funny squeeky clean sounds when he walks around in his soaks and that is when I have been watching extra closely and trying to quietly cheer him on! (while in the shallow end you can hear this) Some times there is awkwardly long eye contact, but I feel it is the support he is requesting...otherwise he would look away, right?!

After researching like crazy and enjoying many tort butt dance videos, I have found the "Sexing your tortoise page" of the Tortoise Supply company most helpful. https://www.tortoisesupply.com/SexingYourTortoises
I know Bob is, in fact, a Bob and not a Barbra because... well... a few years ago he showed me his "Hydraulic intermittent male sexual organs" AND wanted to touch me with it while he received his soak and some light foot and shell scrubs!
Back to business...the link I added really shows the shape of the different breeds and is most helpful! It seems male leo's have the most curved supracaudal of all!?

...and eventually my point! The vet feels that Bob's "area" is inhibiting him from extending his tail out to have a fully functional BM (poop). Bob is about 10 inches long when measuring his plastron and weighs 8lbs when full of poop! His poops normally come out with no more girth than a small tootsie roll but slightly flattened. He did push out one bail of hay that was twice the girth of that during this whole ordeal... the vet thinks it is all due to mechanics and feels the supracaudal should be trimmed a bit. He is contacting his colleagues and the LSU veterinary school/hospital for advice. He says it is the smallest opening he has ever seen for a tortoise his size and that he should be passing poops the girth of a brussel sprout or a little smaller than a ping pong ball! That blows my mind, and is not possible for his opening! I have not seen him extend his tail straight out in years, he keeps it tucked up well, but I do see him moving it about when he is trying to go and he unfolded it and moved it a few times last week, but never out far enough to get out a ping pong ball! I also have not seen his "Hydraulic intermittent male sexual organ" in many years... could this all be to blame for the shape? My biological brain says he is shaped the way he is for a reason, and alterations need NOT be made!

I know you will all want pictures of his opening, but that has never been the subject of my countless tortoise pictures...as cute as it may be! I will ask the vet to forward the pictures he sent to his colleges and post those tomorrow.

Your thoughts?

PS: I can not take credit for the term "Hydraulic intermittent male sexual organ", but I will be using it as often as possible in daily conversation!!!
It is from this article...lmao
Terrifying sex organs of male turtles
http://scienceblogs.com/tetrapodzoology/2007/04/29/terrifying-sex-organs-of-male/

So please, don't be a "Hydraulic intermittent male sexual organ";), and write back to my inquiries!!! :p :D :):tort::<3:
 

Leonard

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3 year old leopard tortoise not pooping in 10 days.
 

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Yvonne G

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@Markw84 one time a while ago mentioned that the shape of the shell back there aids during breeding, for the actual act to be able to take place. Mark explained it much better than I just did.
 
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