New user: "Hello" and questions about young sulcatas growth

[HKTort]

Hi there,

I live in Hong Kong, and my son was given two baby sulcatas a couple of years ago. Personally, I think that selling sulcatas in Hong Kong should be illegal, as space is at a premium in this city and 95% of the population lives in apartments. On this "pet street" in Hong Kong, there are numerous shops selling sulcatas, and business is booming... what will happen in a few years time? How many sulcatas will be "dumped"? It's so heart-breaking to think about! My son and I are lucky enough to live on an island, and the friend who bought the tortoises for my son has a decent-sized garden.

When I found out how large the tortoises get (of course, the shop lied to my friend about how large they grow!), I wanted to return them immediately. The shop refused this, and the consumer council was pretty useless in helping. As a result, my friend has promised to keep the tortoises when they get too large for our home and small garden, fully aware of what they can do to his garden, and what he needs to do keep the tortoises happy and safe there.

In looking at the pictures on the forum, I'm surprised at how small our sulcatas are! As I mentioned, we have had them for just over two years now, and when they were purchased, they were babies that were estimated to be 6-8 months old. The male ("Digger") is much bigger than the female ("Siesta"), but even he is a lot smaller than what is described in the forum.

I would really appreciate it if anyone could give opinions on their size, and also the state of Digger's shell. He has a had a growth spurt over the past 6 months, and I'm worried about his shell.

Thanks so much, and looking forward to hearing from other happy sulcata owners!

 

[Yvonne G]

Welcome to the Forum, HKTort!

Yes, I see what you mean about their size. And the growth space between the scutes shows hardly any growth at all.

Do you keep them indoors? Maybe they're not getting enough heat. They have to be able to warm up to over 85F degrees in order to digest their food, so they need either the sun to sit under or a light that will warm them up.

 

[HKTort]

Thank you for the welcome, Yvonne!

We keep them indoors, and their tortoise tank has a good heat lamp. When it gets cooler here in the winter, we switch to a stronger heat lamp. Because the weather is warm for most of the year (and very hot for 4 months of the year), we let them roam around in my friends garden sometimes (always supervised). We feed them all-natural special pellets every day (that are first moistened) that are a mixture of different grasses, vitamins, minerals. We also give them the occasional mulberry leaves from our mulberry tree. We figured that the diet is okay because there is no pyramiding, and they have been quite healthy and are very active. Also, Hong Kong is extremely humid for most of the year, and my son also keeps a shallow water dish in the tank so that the tortoises can drink and also soak themselves whenever they please. We think that we are doing everything right, but we also think that you are right: you've also noticed how small they are! Either we are doing something wrong somewhere, or else we have discovered some new breed of "mini sulcata"!

 

[mainey34]

Hello and welcome

 

[ALDABRAMAN]

Welcome!

 

[wellington]

Hello and Welcome I think a bigger variety of food is needed. Not sure it will help their size but is needed. I am not sure of what you have a available to you, but spring mix, optunia cactus pads, hibiscus leaf and flower, grasses, endive, collard, mustard, greens can all be added in. If you can find Mazuri tortoise diet there, that is good also for a couple times a week. Do you give any calcium and do you have a cuttlebone available for them? Both are also needed. Also, because of their size, I would soak them every day or at least every other day for 20-30 minutes in warm water. They look good but look kinda dry also.

 

[l0velesly]

I think your sulcatas needs to get more sunlight. If your heat lamp doesn't have UVA/UVB, then you should try to take them out for sun at least 1-2 hrs/day.

 

[sibi]

I agree. Sunlight is so important for their growth and general health. I never liked depending on UV lighting as a substitute for sunlight...but we do what we can. Also, you mentioned that you have a male and female. How do you know their sex? They seem to small and young to tell the difference right now. If it turns out that one is male and the other female, you may want to see a vet and have the male neutered so they don't produce a bunch of smaller ones that you don't want. Something to think about.

 

[Laura]

neutering the male? i don't think tha tis easliy done..
but housing two together in a small garden you dont want destroyed.. will be hard..

 

[DrewsLife727]

Welcome!

-Drew

 

[Tom]

Hello and welcome. Yes they are very small. Could be several reasons for this. I agree they need more sun, more dietary variety, and pairs are usually not a good idea.

There is a whole lot of sulcata info in my signature.

 

[kanalomele]

Hi and welcome to TFO!

 

[Julius25]

Welcome

 

[HKTort]

I agree. Sunlight is so important for their growth and general health. I never liked depending on UV lighting as a substitute for sunlight...but we do what we can. Also, you mentioned that you have a male and female. How do you know their sex? They seem to small and young to tell the difference right now. If it turns out that one is male and the other female, you may want to see a vet and have the male neutered so they don't produce a bunch of smaller ones that you don't want. Something to think about.

On the box for their heat lamp, it clearly states that it is full 4-colour spectrum, UVA and UVB rays. However, after reading what you said about not depending on the lamp as a substitute for sunlight, we'll make much more effort to get the tortoises outdoors more often.

As for knowing their sex, my son was told in the shop where they were bought. I didn't really put any faith in what the shop assistant said (this same person had said that sulcatas grow to a maximum size of 12 inches!), so we researched online. What we found matched-up with what my son was told in the shop. The anal scutes of the plastron are narrowly flared in the female, and widely flared in the male. Unfortunately, my friend who purchased the tortoises for my son was worried that a single tortoise would be lonely, and that two tortoises of the same sex would end up fighting, so he bought one of each sex. I'm trying to find a solution now, before it's too late, as to what to do with them when they get to the breeding age.

 

[HKTort]

Hello and Welcome I think a bigger variety of food is needed. Not sure it will help their size but is needed. I am not sure of what you have a available to you, but spring mix, optunia cactus pads, hibiscus leaf and flower, grasses, endive, collard, mustard, greens can all be added in. If you can find Mazuri tortoise diet there, that is good also for a couple times a week. Do you give any calcium and do you have a cuttlebone available for them? Both are also needed. Also, because of their size, I would soak them every day or at least every other day for 20-30 minutes in warm water. They look good but look kinda dry also.

Thanks so much for those suggestions! We have hibiscus growing in the garden, and my neighbours have optunia cactus growing in their garden that they're happy to share, so we'll start giving these to the tortoises. The food that we give them already has calcium added, but I had no idea about the cuttlefish bone. Those are easy to find here, so I'll get one for them asap. I've also told my son that we need to soak them more often. As for the Mazuri tortoise food, I'll have to go and search. There is one long street here that is nothing but pet shops (yes, the same street where the tortoises were originally purchased)... so I'll go there and ask around. I have found one good reptile "seller" already, so I'll talk to him about it. At least he refuses to sell any reptiles that grow large... I wish that others would follow his lead and be that responsible!

 

[HKTort]

neutering the male? i don't think tha tis easliy done..
but housing two together in a small garden you dont want destroyed.. will be hard..

Neutering? OMG... would any vet here even know how to do this for a tortoise? Wow.... never even thought about this!

As for the garden being destroyed, I've talked to my friend about this (the one who bought the tortoises without doing any research, or consulting me about it first!). He is ready to accept responsibility. I've told him that the tortoises will dig up his garden, and he says that he doesn't mind, as long as they don't hurt his trees. I've shown him videos and pictures online so that he really understands what these tortoises can do, and he's fine with it (well, better his garden than mine!). I've also told him about the vast amounts of "natural waste" that they produce, and he's actually excited about this. In typical Hong Kong fashion, he is thinking about how much he can sell it for, as a natural fertilizer! $$$

 

[TORTOISEMAN1]

Welcome to the show!

 

[HKTort]

Many thanks to all of you for your helpful suggestions, and for all of the warm welcomes!

I'll put your suggestions into practise, and hopefully I'll have some great pictures to share of our growing tortoises in the not-too-distant future. If anyone else has suggestions that they would like to share, that would be great.

Best wishes to all of you!

Chantal

 

[pam]

Welcome

 

[sibi]

If the two torts are not males, and they get along, then there shouldn't be a problem. The store dealer probably doesn't know one thing about sulcatas' sex especially since you can't really tell until they are about 6 years old, or if one is a male, he may flash you. Having said that, you may consider building an enclosure with two levels so that each tort will have his/her own space. When they get bigger, and I mean BIGGER, what is your plan?

I agree. Sunlight is so important for their growth and general health. I never liked depending on UV lighting as a substitute for sunlight...but we do what we can. Also, you mentioned that you have a male and female. How do you know their sex? They seem to small and young to tell the difference right now. If it turns out that one is male and the other female, you may want to see a vet and have the male neutered so they don't produce a bunch of smaller ones that you don't want. Something to think about.

On the box for their heat lamp, it clearly states that it is full 4-colour spectrum, UVA and UVB rays. However, after reading what you said about not depending on the lamp as a substitute for sunlight, we'll make much more effort to get the tortoises outdoors more often.

As for knowing their sex, my son was told in the shop where they were bought. I didn't really put any faith in what the shop assistant said (this same person had said that sulcatas grow to a maximum size of 12 inches!), so we researched online. What we found matched-up with what my son was told in the shop. The anal scutes of the plastron are narrowly flared in the female, and widely flared in the male. Unfortunately, my friend who purchased the tortoises for my son was worried that a single tortoise would be lonely, and that two tortoises of the same sex would end up fighting, so he bought one of each sex. I'm trying to find a solution now, before it's too late, as to what to do with them when they get to the breeding age.