I recently bought a Sulcata tortoise. I am not positive on her age but I measured her and she is about 2-2.5 inches long so I would estimate her to be a few months old. I have done a lot of research and read so much about everything Sulcatas need. I’ve read about some people, especially breeders who are really strict with everything, and others are more laid back. Because of this there seems to be a lot of conflicting information around tortoises, I never would’ve thought they could be so complicated! Many people I’ve read tips from seem to be raising multiple tortoises, while I don’t plan on getting another, as of now, and would like to keep her for all my life. Currently I have her set up in a black cement mixing pan that is about three feet long. I put cypress mulch in there along with a decent sized hide, a food bowl, water bowl, and a cuddle bone. She has a heat/UVB combination bulb above, and I am currently waiting on a hygrometer/thermometer that I ordered to come in. Some things I’m a little confused about are diet, heating/lighting, and the specific/different requirements a baby needs compared to an adult. Some people say to leave lamps on all the time, others say to turn them off at night. In the warmer months my house temperature doesn’t go below 75 degrees Fahrenheit at night, but in the winter it could drop to temperatures in the high 60s. I’ve seen some say to never let the enclosure go below 80 degees, and others say that the tortoise is fine as long as the temperature doesn’t go below 65. There’s also the issue of humidity. Do babies really need at least 80% humidity at all times? I plan on soaking her everyday and she will always have access to water, and I also have a spray bottle of water to wet down her enclosure. I’m just not sure with all of that if she still absolutely needs to have very humid conditions at all times. When I think about it, I live in the very dry Arizona desert, though we have been getting some crazy monsoons lately. Considering that, and that when she is older she will be outside in very dry conditions, why exactly does she need such high humidity? Then there is diet. Some say you can feed pellets, others say to avoid them like the plague. Some say certain dark leafy greens are fine for them, like kale and collard greens, but others say to avoid them. I know they should not be a big part of Sulcatas diets, but they have a lot of good vitamins in them, certainly in moderation they wouldn’t be bad for them right? I am also wondering where the best place to find the most natural tortoise food is. Like grasses, clovers, grape leaves, all that good stuff for their diet. I know where to get Timothy and orchard hay, but I know she needs more than just dried grass. The thing is, in Arizona there isn’t much grass, especially in summer, so I am wondering where I get it. Places that do actually have grass, like public parks and such, spray with pesticides so that’s a no go. I’ve thought about growing my own, but I don’t know the first thing when it comes to plants😂 I’m also wondering if babies are any different than adults? Do they need different temperatures, any different foods or supplements, different care, etc? All in all, my biggest questions are on the conflicting information I have seen in my research. I am really curious and genuinely want to know as much as I can from as many people as possible so that my new pet can live a rich and happy life. Any additional tips are also very helpful.
New tortoise owner to a Sulcata, any tips greatly appreciated!
- Thread starter Astro
- Start date
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2017
- Messages
- 5,751
- Location (City and/or State)
- Low desert 50 mi SE of Palm Springs CA
Hi, and welcome to the forum!
You are very correct in your description of the conflicting info on torts! There is so much bad info out there. Then you add to that the fact that many people are stuck in their ways, so they refuse to adopt good husbandry even with positive evidence in front of them. Then, the folks you think you can trust actually don't have a clue what good care is for a tortoise. Vets, unless they specialize in exotics, really don't know much about good care. Pet shop employees don't either, and they really just want you to spend your money.
Well, your difficulties are about over and done with. You've found the very best place for good, up to date info, from people who have spent decades breeding and successfully raising, most species of tortoises. They have done side by side experiments to find what works well, what kind of works, and what is a disaster.
The best way for you to start is with the encyclopedia of reading I'm going to link for you.
This care sheet is the only guide you need, along with the additional info I'll link. Follow this faithfully, and your baby will do great. After you've read all of this, come back with all your questions, and we'll help you on anything you need.
www.tortoiseforum.org
For Those Who Have a Young Sulcata:
tortoiseforum.org
WHY SOAK? by Tom
www.tortoiseforum.org
tortoiseforum.org
www.tortoiseforum.org
www.tortoiseforum.org
4 elements of heating: By Tom
There are four elements to heating and lighting:
Basking bulb. I use 65 watt floods from the hardware store. I run them on a timer and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb.
Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. You'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT.
Light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish.
UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. If you want it anyway, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html
Compiled by Tom:
Good foods for tortoises are "chicories," types of lettuce that are likely to be on the far side of the more common floppy green heads of lettuce most people buy. Anything labeled as simply "chicory" is good, as are radiccio, frisee, escarole, and endive; you might even find something labeled as dandelions. You may find a bag of "Spring" or "Spicy" mix that is good, just check the label to be sure it has some of the chicories I just mentioned. The leaves (just the leaves) of turnips and radishes are also good, as are carrot tops. Collards, mustard greens, bok choy, and other dark, leafy greens are okay as well. If you have any kind of Mexican/hispanic market near you, they will sell cactus, labeled "nopales." Cactus is a great food to rotate in the diet, as it is high in calcium.
You don't need to feed all of these at one time, just make sure your tortoise is getting access to different types of food. As you get more experienced, you can find the better types of food listed on the care sheets.
Here are a whole bunch of non-grocery store suggestions.
Mulberry leaves
Grape vine leaves
Hibiscus leaves
African hibiscus leaves
Blue hibiscus leaves
Rose of Sharon leaves
Rose leaves
Geraniums
Gazanias
Nasturtium
Lavatera
Pansies
Petunias
Hostas
Honeysuckle
Cape honeysuckle
Leaves and blooms from any squash plant, like pumpkin, cucumber, summer squash, etc...
Young spineless opuntia cactus pads
Weeds:
There are soooooooo many...
Dandelion
Mallow
Filaree
Smooth Sow thistle
Prickly Sow thistle
Milk thistle
Goat head weed
Cats ear
Nettles
Trefoil
Wild onion
Wild mustard
Wild Garlic
Clovers
Broadleaf plantain
Narrow leaf plantain
Chick weed
Hawksbit
Hensbit
Hawksbeard
Other good stuff:
kapidolofarms.com
"Testudo Seed Mix" from http://www.tortoisesupply.com/SeedMixes
Pasture mixes or other seeds from http://www.groworganic.com/seeds.html
Homegrown alfalfa
Mazuri Tortoise Chow
ZooMed Grassland Tortoise Food
Ones that you can buy in every store:
Arugula
Lambs lettuce
Chicory
Kale
Mustard greens
Organic kohlrabi leafs
Organic carrot leafs
Organic radish leafs
Dandelions
Radiccio
Their main diet should be broad leaf weeds, succulents and grasses. Store bought foods are okay, but not the best. Collards and dandelions are a good food, but neither should be used every day. Check out the plant ID section for lots of ideas on weeds to feed. You can get spineless opuntia cactus pads from most Mexican grocery stores, or grow them yourself. You can also easily grow grape leaves, african hibiscus, regular hibiscus (if it will survive in your area), and mulberry leaves. You can try red apple, ice plant, and jade plant too. Also look into Gazania, pansies, nasturtiums, carnations, geraniums and many others. At the grocery store, favor endive and escarole, but also use cilantro, carrot tops, mustard and turnip greens, bok choy, radiccio, swiss chard, watercress, parsley, all the lettuces, etc. Lots of variety is best. There are also tortoise "weed" seed mixes that you can grow. I like the "Testudo Mix" from Tortoisesupply.com.
Buckwheat; cactus; vetch; Mohave aster; creosote bush; desert four o’clock; tacoma stans; bladderpod; globe mallow; goldenhead; burro weed; so many things!
Feeding:
So much contradictory info on this subject. Its simple. What do they eat in the wild. Grass, weeds, leaves, flowers, and succulents. Feed them a huge variety of these things, and you'll have a healthy tortoise. All of these species are very adaptable when it comes to diet and there is a very large margin of error, and many ways to do it right. What if you don't have this sort of "natural" tortoise food available for part of each year because you are in the snow? You will have no choice but to buy grocery store food. What's wrong with grocery store food? It tends to lack fiber, some items are low in calcium or have a poor calcium to phosphorous ratio, and some items have deleterious compounds in them. All of these short comings can be improved with some simple supplementation and amendments. A pinch of calcium two times per week will help fix that problem. You can also leave cuttle bone in the enclosure, so your tortoise can self-regulate its own calcium intake. What about fiber? Soaked horse hay pellets, soaked ZooMed Grassland pellets, Mazuri tortoise chow, "Salad style", "Herbal Hay" both from @TylerStewart and his lovely wife Sarah at Tortoisesupply.com, or many of the dried plants and leaves available from Will @Kapidolo Farms. If you must use grocery store foods, favor endive and escarole as your main staples. Add in arugula, cilantro, kale, collard, mustard and turnip greens, squash leaves, spring mix, romaine, green or red leaf lettuce, butter lettuce, water cress, carrot tops, celery tops, bok choy, and whatever other greens you can find. If you mix in some of the aforementioned amendments, these grocery store foods will offer plenty of variety and fiber and be able to meet your tortoises nutritional needs just fine. I find it preferable to grab a few grapevine or mulberry leaves, or a handful of mallow and clover, or some broadleaf plantain leaves and some grass, but with the right additions, grocery store stuff is fine too. Grow your own stuff, or find it around you when possible. Tyler and Sarah also sell a fantastic Testudo seed mix that is great for ALL tortoise species and also super easy to grow in pots, trays, raised garden beds, or in outdoor tortoise enclosures. When that isn't possible, add a wide variety of good stuff to your grocery store greens to make them better.
Supplements:
I recommend you keep cuttle bone available all the time. Some never use it and some munch on it regularly. Some of mine will go months without touching it, and then suddenly eat the whole thing in a day or two. Sulcatas and leopards grow a lot. This requires a tremendous amount of calcium assimilation over time. A great diet is paramount, but it is still a good idea to give them some extra calcium regularly. I use a tiny pinch of RepCal or ZooMed plain old calcium carbonate twice a week. Much discussion has been given to whether or not they need D3 in their calcium supplement. Personally, I don't think it matters. Every tortoise should be getting adequate UV exposure one way or another, so they should be able to make their own D3. I also like to use a mineral supplement. "MinerAll" is my current brand of choice. It seems tohelp those tortoises that like to swallow pebbles and rocks. It is speculated that some tortoise eat rocks or substrate due to a mineral deficiency or imbalance. Whatever the reason, "MinerAll" seems to stop it or prevent it. Finally, I like to use a reptile vitamin supplement once a week, to round out any hidden deficiencies that may be in my diet over the course of a
year.
You are very correct in your description of the conflicting info on torts! There is so much bad info out there. Then you add to that the fact that many people are stuck in their ways, so they refuse to adopt good husbandry even with positive evidence in front of them. Then, the folks you think you can trust actually don't have a clue what good care is for a tortoise. Vets, unless they specialize in exotics, really don't know much about good care. Pet shop employees don't either, and they really just want you to spend your money.
Well, your difficulties are about over and done with. You've found the very best place for good, up to date info, from people who have spent decades breeding and successfully raising, most species of tortoises. They have done side by side experiments to find what works well, what kind of works, and what is a disaster.
The best way for you to start is with the encyclopedia of reading I'm going to link for you.
This care sheet is the only guide you need, along with the additional info I'll link. Follow this faithfully, and your baby will do great. After you've read all of this, come back with all your questions, and we'll help you on anything you need.Beginner Mistakes
To comment on Tom's article, go here: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-split-Beginner-Mistakes#axzz1tG8s05M5 Over the years many of us, myself included, have made many of these mistakes, and we have certainly seen them made many times by others. With springtime upon us and many new...
www.tortoiseforum.org
For Those Who Have a Young Sulcata:
For Those Who Have a Young Sulcata...
Over and over I type up and answer diet questions and try to get people feeding the right stuff, but I find that the "norm" is grocery store food. Grocery store food is expensive, a hassle to obtain, and very low on the list of what is best for sulcatas. These tortoises are GRASS eaters. From...
tortoiseforum.org
WHY SOAK? by Tom
Baby Egyptian Tortoise - Newbie
Hello, I recieved this cutie as a gift, I already have a bigger one that is doing well and hibernating, I need to know what shall I do in order to maintain the health of it... noting that the house they are in is now inside as it gets freezing outside at night.. appreciate your advice. Thank you
www.tortoiseforum.org
The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise
I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...
tortoiseforum.org
The End Of Pyramiding
I thought a lot about what to name this thread. I intend for it to go on for several years, so I had to pick something fitting. So be careful how you reply to this thread, as it will be read by many for a long time to come. One way or another, the following will be one more nail in the coffin...
www.tortoiseforum.org
Closed "Chambers"
Been meaning to do this one for a while now... Over the years I have kept a lot of reptiles in a lot of different ways. I've learned a lot of stuff about a lot of species. Since finding and joining this forum almost two years ago, I've learned a TON more. Now I'm not just stumbling around...
www.tortoiseforum.org
4 elements of heating: By Tom
There are four elements to heating and lighting:
Basking bulb. I use 65 watt floods from the hardware store. I run them on a timer and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb.
Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. You'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT.
Light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish.
UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. If you want it anyway, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html
Compiled by Tom:
Good foods for tortoises are "chicories," types of lettuce that are likely to be on the far side of the more common floppy green heads of lettuce most people buy. Anything labeled as simply "chicory" is good, as are radiccio, frisee, escarole, and endive; you might even find something labeled as dandelions. You may find a bag of "Spring" or "Spicy" mix that is good, just check the label to be sure it has some of the chicories I just mentioned. The leaves (just the leaves) of turnips and radishes are also good, as are carrot tops. Collards, mustard greens, bok choy, and other dark, leafy greens are okay as well. If you have any kind of Mexican/hispanic market near you, they will sell cactus, labeled "nopales." Cactus is a great food to rotate in the diet, as it is high in calcium.
You don't need to feed all of these at one time, just make sure your tortoise is getting access to different types of food. As you get more experienced, you can find the better types of food listed on the care sheets.
Here are a whole bunch of non-grocery store suggestions.
Mulberry leaves
Grape vine leaves
Hibiscus leaves
African hibiscus leaves
Blue hibiscus leaves
Rose of Sharon leaves
Rose leaves
Geraniums
Gazanias
Nasturtium
Lavatera
Pansies
Petunias
Hostas
Honeysuckle
Cape honeysuckle
Leaves and blooms from any squash plant, like pumpkin, cucumber, summer squash, etc...
Young spineless opuntia cactus pads
Weeds:
There are soooooooo many...
Dandelion
Mallow
Filaree
Smooth Sow thistle
Prickly Sow thistle
Milk thistle
Goat head weed
Cats ear
Nettles
Trefoil
Wild onion
Wild mustard
Wild Garlic
Clovers
Broadleaf plantain
Narrow leaf plantain
Chick weed
Hawksbit
Hensbit
Hawksbeard
Other good stuff:
Category: Organic sourced diet items
kapidolofarms.com
"Testudo Seed Mix" from http://www.tortoisesupply.com/SeedMixes
Pasture mixes or other seeds from http://www.groworganic.com/seeds.html
Homegrown alfalfa
Mazuri Tortoise Chow
ZooMed Grassland Tortoise Food
Ones that you can buy in every store:
Arugula
Lambs lettuce
Chicory
Kale
Mustard greens
Organic kohlrabi leafs
Organic carrot leafs
Organic radish leafs
Dandelions
Radiccio
Their main diet should be broad leaf weeds, succulents and grasses. Store bought foods are okay, but not the best. Collards and dandelions are a good food, but neither should be used every day. Check out the plant ID section for lots of ideas on weeds to feed. You can get spineless opuntia cactus pads from most Mexican grocery stores, or grow them yourself. You can also easily grow grape leaves, african hibiscus, regular hibiscus (if it will survive in your area), and mulberry leaves. You can try red apple, ice plant, and jade plant too. Also look into Gazania, pansies, nasturtiums, carnations, geraniums and many others. At the grocery store, favor endive and escarole, but also use cilantro, carrot tops, mustard and turnip greens, bok choy, radiccio, swiss chard, watercress, parsley, all the lettuces, etc. Lots of variety is best. There are also tortoise "weed" seed mixes that you can grow. I like the "Testudo Mix" from Tortoisesupply.com.
Buckwheat; cactus; vetch; Mohave aster; creosote bush; desert four o’clock; tacoma stans; bladderpod; globe mallow; goldenhead; burro weed; so many things!
Feeding:
So much contradictory info on this subject. Its simple. What do they eat in the wild. Grass, weeds, leaves, flowers, and succulents. Feed them a huge variety of these things, and you'll have a healthy tortoise. All of these species are very adaptable when it comes to diet and there is a very large margin of error, and many ways to do it right. What if you don't have this sort of "natural" tortoise food available for part of each year because you are in the snow? You will have no choice but to buy grocery store food. What's wrong with grocery store food? It tends to lack fiber, some items are low in calcium or have a poor calcium to phosphorous ratio, and some items have deleterious compounds in them. All of these short comings can be improved with some simple supplementation and amendments. A pinch of calcium two times per week will help fix that problem. You can also leave cuttle bone in the enclosure, so your tortoise can self-regulate its own calcium intake. What about fiber? Soaked horse hay pellets, soaked ZooMed Grassland pellets, Mazuri tortoise chow, "Salad style", "Herbal Hay" both from @TylerStewart and his lovely wife Sarah at Tortoisesupply.com, or many of the dried plants and leaves available from Will @Kapidolo Farms. If you must use grocery store foods, favor endive and escarole as your main staples. Add in arugula, cilantro, kale, collard, mustard and turnip greens, squash leaves, spring mix, romaine, green or red leaf lettuce, butter lettuce, water cress, carrot tops, celery tops, bok choy, and whatever other greens you can find. If you mix in some of the aforementioned amendments, these grocery store foods will offer plenty of variety and fiber and be able to meet your tortoises nutritional needs just fine. I find it preferable to grab a few grapevine or mulberry leaves, or a handful of mallow and clover, or some broadleaf plantain leaves and some grass, but with the right additions, grocery store stuff is fine too. Grow your own stuff, or find it around you when possible. Tyler and Sarah also sell a fantastic Testudo seed mix that is great for ALL tortoise species and also super easy to grow in pots, trays, raised garden beds, or in outdoor tortoise enclosures. When that isn't possible, add a wide variety of good stuff to your grocery store greens to make them better.
Supplements:
I recommend you keep cuttle bone available all the time. Some never use it and some munch on it regularly. Some of mine will go months without touching it, and then suddenly eat the whole thing in a day or two. Sulcatas and leopards grow a lot. This requires a tremendous amount of calcium assimilation over time. A great diet is paramount, but it is still a good idea to give them some extra calcium regularly. I use a tiny pinch of RepCal or ZooMed plain old calcium carbonate twice a week. Much discussion has been given to whether or not they need D3 in their calcium supplement. Personally, I don't think it matters. Every tortoise should be getting adequate UV exposure one way or another, so they should be able to make their own D3. I also like to use a mineral supplement. "MinerAll" is my current brand of choice. It seems tohelp those tortoises that like to swallow pebbles and rocks. It is speculated that some tortoise eat rocks or substrate due to a mineral deficiency or imbalance. Whatever the reason, "MinerAll" seems to stop it or prevent it. Finally, I like to use a reptile vitamin supplement once a week, to round out any hidden deficiencies that may be in my diet over the course of a
year.
Hi and welcome!
Read and follow what Karen posted for you and forget what you found on your research if it wasn't done on this forum.
Maddoggy
Active Member
Welcome you are in the best information source on tortoises that exist.
Holy cats! Be sure to hang around and ask questions...Hi, and welcome to the forum!
You are very correct in your description of the conflicting info on torts! There is so much bad info out there. Then you add to that the fact that many people are stuck in their ways, so they refuse to adopt good husbandry even with positive evidence in front of them. Then, the folks you think you can trust actually don't have a clue what good care is for a tortoise. Vets, unless they specialize in exotics, really don't know much about good care. Pet shop employees don't either, and they really just want you to spend your money.
Well, your difficulties are about over and done with. You've found the very best place for good, up to date info, from people who have spent decades breeding and successfully raising, most species of tortoises. They have done side by side experiments to find what works well, what kind of works, and what is a disaster.
The best way for you to start is with the encyclopedia of reading I'm going to link for you.
Beginner Mistakes
To comment on Tom's article, go here: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-split-Beginner-Mistakes#axzz1tG8s05M5 Over the years many of us, myself included, have made many of these mistakes, and we have certainly seen them made many times by others. With springtime upon us and many new...
For Those Who Have a Young Sulcata:
For Those Who Have a Young Sulcata...
Over and over I type up and answer diet questions and try to get people feeding the right stuff, but I find that the "norm" is grocery store food. Grocery store food is expensive, a hassle to obtain, and very low on the list of what is best for sulcatas. These tortoises are GRASS eaters. From...
WHY SOAK? by Tom
Baby Egyptian Tortoise - Newbie
Hello, I recieved this cutie as a gift, I already have a bigger one that is doing well and hibernating, I need to know what shall I do in order to maintain the health of it... noting that the house they are in is now inside as it gets freezing outside at night.. appreciate your advice. Thank you
The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise
I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...
The End Of Pyramiding
I thought a lot about what to name this thread. I intend for it to go on for several years, so I had to pick something fitting. So be careful how you reply to this thread, as it will be read by many for a long time to come. One way or another, the following will be one more nail in the coffin...
Closed "Chambers"
Been meaning to do this one for a while now... Over the years I have kept a lot of reptiles in a lot of different ways. I've learned a lot of stuff about a lot of species. Since finding and joining this forum almost two years ago, I've learned a TON more. Now I'm not just stumbling around...
4 elements of heating: By Tom
There are four elements to heating and lighting:
Basking bulb. I use 65 watt floods from the hardware store. I run them on a timer and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb.
Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. You'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT.
Light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish.
UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. If you want it anyway, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html
Compiled by Tom:
Good foods for tortoises are "chicories," types of lettuce that are likely to be on the far side of the more common floppy green heads of lettuce most people buy. Anything labeled as simply "chicory" is good, as are radiccio, frisee, escarole, and endive; you might even find something labeled as dandelions. You may find a bag of "Spring" or "Spicy" mix that is good, just check the label to be sure it has some of the chicories I just mentioned. The leaves (just the leaves) of turnips and radishes are also good, as are carrot tops. Collards, mustard greens, bok choy, and other dark, leafy greens are okay as well. If you have any kind of Mexican/hispanic market near you, they will sell cactus, labeled "nopales." Cactus is a great food to rotate in the diet, as it is high in calcium.
You don't need to feed all of these at one time, just make sure your tortoise is getting access to different types of food. As you get more experienced, you can find the better types of food listed on the care sheets.
Here are a whole bunch of non-grocery store suggestions.
Mulberry leaves
Grape vine leaves
Hibiscus leaves
African hibiscus leaves
Blue hibiscus leaves
Rose of Sharon leaves
Rose leaves
Geraniums
Gazanias
Nasturtium
Lavatera
Pansies
Petunias
Hostas
Honeysuckle
Cape honeysuckle
Leaves and blooms from any squash plant, like pumpkin, cucumber, summer squash, etc...
Young spineless opuntia cactus pads
Weeds:
There are soooooooo many...
Dandelion
Mallow
Filaree
Smooth Sow thistle
Prickly Sow thistle
Milk thistle
Goat head weed
Cats ear
Nettles
Trefoil
Wild onion
Wild mustard
Wild Garlic
Clovers
Broadleaf plantain
Narrow leaf plantain
Chick weed
Hawksbit
Hensbit
Hawksbeard
Other good stuff:
Category: Organic sourced diet items
"Testudo Seed Mix" from http://www.tortoisesupply.com/SeedMixes
Pasture mixes or other seeds from http://www.groworganic.com/seeds.html
Homegrown alfalfa
Mazuri Tortoise Chow
ZooMed Grassland Tortoise Food
Ones that you can buy in every store:
Arugula
Lambs lettuce
Chicory
Kale
Mustard greens
Organic kohlrabi leafs
Organic carrot leafs
Organic radish leafs
Dandelions
Radiccio
Their main diet should be broad leaf weeds, succulents and grasses. Store bought foods are okay, but not the best. Collards and dandelions are a good food, but neither should be used every day. Check out the plant ID section for lots of ideas on weeds to feed. You can get spineless opuntia cactus pads from most Mexican grocery stores, or grow them yourself. You can also easily grow grape leaves, african hibiscus, regular hibiscus (if it will survive in your area), and mulberry leaves. You can try red apple, ice plant, and jade plant too. Also look into Gazania, pansies, nasturtiums, carnations, geraniums and many others. At the grocery store, favor endive and escarole, but also use cilantro, carrot tops, mustard and turnip greens, bok choy, radiccio, swiss chard, watercress, parsley, all the lettuces, etc. Lots of variety is best. There are also tortoise "weed" seed mixes that you can grow. I like the "Testudo Mix" from Tortoisesupply.com.
Buckwheat; cactus; vetch; Mohave aster; creosote bush; desert four o’clock; tacoma stans; bladderpod; globe mallow; goldenhead; burro weed; so many things!
Feeding:
So much contradictory info on this subject. Its simple. What do they eat in the wild. Grass, weeds, leaves, flowers, and succulents. Feed them a huge variety of these things, and you'll have a healthy tortoise. All of these species are very adaptable when it comes to diet and there is a very large margin of error, and many ways to do it right. What if you don't have this sort of "natural" tortoise food available for part of each year because you are in the snow? You will have no choice but to buy grocery store food. What's wrong with grocery store food? It tends to lack fiber, some items are low in calcium or have a poor calcium to phosphorous ratio, and some items have deleterious compounds in them. All of these short comings can be improved with some simple supplementation and amendments. A pinch of calcium two times per week will help fix that problem. You can also leave cuttle bone in the enclosure, so your tortoise can self-regulate its own calcium intake. What about fiber? Soaked horse hay pellets, soaked ZooMed Grassland pellets, Mazuri tortoise chow, "Salad style", "Herbal Hay" both from @TylerStewart and his lovely wife Sarah at Tortoisesupply.com, or many of the dried plants and leaves available from Will @Kapidolo Farms. If you must use grocery store foods, favor endive and escarole as your main staples. Add in arugula, cilantro, kale, collard, mustard and turnip greens, squash leaves, spring mix, romaine, green or red leaf lettuce, butter lettuce, water cress, carrot tops, celery tops, bok choy, and whatever other greens you can find. If you mix in some of the aforementioned amendments, these grocery store foods will offer plenty of variety and fiber and be able to meet your tortoises nutritional needs just fine. I find it preferable to grab a few grapevine or mulberry leaves, or a handful of mallow and clover, or some broadleaf plantain leaves and some grass, but with the right additions, grocery store stuff is fine too. Grow your own stuff, or find it around you when possible. Tyler and Sarah also sell a fantastic Testudo seed mix that is great for ALL tortoise species and also super easy to grow in pots, trays, raised garden beds, or in outdoor tortoise enclosures. When that isn't possible, add a wide variety of good stuff to your grocery store greens to make them better.
Supplements:
I recommend you keep cuttle bone available all the time. Some never use it and some munch on it regularly. Some of mine will go months without touching it, and then suddenly eat the whole thing in a day or two. Sulcatas and leopards grow a lot. This requires a tremendous amount of calcium assimilation over time. A great diet is paramount, but it is still a good idea to give them some extra calcium regularly. I use a tiny pinch of RepCal or ZooMed plain old calcium carbonate twice a week. Much discussion has been given to whether or not they need D3 in their calcium supplement. Personally, I don't think it matters. Every tortoise should be getting adequate UV exposure one way or another, so they should be able to make their own D3. I also like to use a mineral supplement. "MinerAll" is my current brand of choice. It seems tohelp those tortoises that like to swallow pebbles and rocks. It is speculated that some tortoise eat rocks or substrate due to a mineral deficiency or imbalance. Whatever the reason, "MinerAll" seems to stop it or prevent it. Finally, I like to use a reptile vitamin supplement once a week, to round out any hidden deficiencies that may be in my diet over the course of a
year.
Thank you! That is a lot of great information! After reading I am a bit overwhelmed, particularly with the enclosure. I am seeing that a closed enclosure is the best, especially with humidity, but I have no idea how to build that sort of thing. Are any available online? Also with lighting, do I need more than one bulb than what I already have?Hi, and welcome to the forum!
You are very correct in your description of the conflicting info on torts! There is so much bad info out there. Then you add to that the fact that many people are stuck in their ways, so they refuse to adopt good husbandry even with positive evidence in front of them. Then, the folks you think you can trust actually don't have a clue what good care is for a tortoise. Vets, unless they specialize in exotics, really don't know much about good care. Pet shop employees don't either, and they really just want you to spend your money.
Well, your difficulties are about over and done with. You've found the very best place for good, up to date info, from people who have spent decades breeding and successfully raising, most species of tortoises. They have done side by side experiments to find what works well, what kind of works, and what is a disaster.
The best way for you to start is with the encyclopedia of reading I'm going to link for you.
Beginner Mistakes
To comment on Tom's article, go here: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-split-Beginner-Mistakes#axzz1tG8s05M5 Over the years many of us, myself included, have made many of these mistakes, and we have certainly seen them made many times by others. With springtime upon us and many new...
For Those Who Have a Young Sulcata:
For Those Who Have a Young Sulcata...
Over and over I type up and answer diet questions and try to get people feeding the right stuff, but I find that the "norm" is grocery store food. Grocery store food is expensive, a hassle to obtain, and very low on the list of what is best for sulcatas. These tortoises are GRASS eaters. From...
WHY SOAK? by Tom
Baby Egyptian Tortoise - Newbie
Hello, I recieved this cutie as a gift, I already have a bigger one that is doing well and hibernating, I need to know what shall I do in order to maintain the health of it... noting that the house they are in is now inside as it gets freezing outside at night.. appreciate your advice. Thank you
The Best Way To Raise A Sulcata, Leopard, Or Star Tortoise
I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. Babies hatch during the...
The End Of Pyramiding
I thought a lot about what to name this thread. I intend for it to go on for several years, so I had to pick something fitting. So be careful how you reply to this thread, as it will be read by many for a long time to come. One way or another, the following will be one more nail in the coffin...
Closed "Chambers"
Been meaning to do this one for a while now... Over the years I have kept a lot of reptiles in a lot of different ways. I've learned a lot of stuff about a lot of species. Since finding and joining this forum almost two years ago, I've learned a TON more. Now I'm not just stumbling around...
4 elements of heating: By Tom
There are four elements to heating and lighting:
Basking bulb. I use 65 watt floods from the hardware store. I run them on a timer and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb.
Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. You'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT.
Light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish.
UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. If you want it anyway, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html
Compiled by Tom:
Good foods for tortoises are "chicories," types of lettuce that are likely to be on the far side of the more common floppy green heads of lettuce most people buy. Anything labeled as simply "chicory" is good, as are radiccio, frisee, escarole, and endive; you might even find something labeled as dandelions. You may find a bag of "Spring" or "Spicy" mix that is good, just check the label to be sure it has some of the chicories I just mentioned. The leaves (just the leaves) of turnips and radishes are also good, as are carrot tops. Collards, mustard greens, bok choy, and other dark, leafy greens are okay as well. If you have any kind of Mexican/hispanic market near you, they will sell cactus, labeled "nopales." Cactus is a great food to rotate in the diet, as it is high in calcium.
You don't need to feed all of these at one time, just make sure your tortoise is getting access to different types of food. As you get more experienced, you can find the better types of food listed on the care sheets.
Here are a whole bunch of non-grocery store suggestions.
Mulberry leaves
Grape vine leaves
Hibiscus leaves
African hibiscus leaves
Blue hibiscus leaves
Rose of Sharon leaves
Rose leaves
Geraniums
Gazanias
Nasturtium
Lavatera
Pansies
Petunias
Hostas
Honeysuckle
Cape honeysuckle
Leaves and blooms from any squash plant, like pumpkin, cucumber, summer squash, etc...
Young spineless opuntia cactus pads
Weeds:
There are soooooooo many...
Dandelion
Mallow
Filaree
Smooth Sow thistle
Prickly Sow thistle
Milk thistle
Goat head weed
Cats ear
Nettles
Trefoil
Wild onion
Wild mustard
Wild Garlic
Clovers
Broadleaf plantain
Narrow leaf plantain
Chick weed
Hawksbit
Hensbit
Hawksbeard
Other good stuff:
Category: Organic sourced diet items
"Testudo Seed Mix" from http://www.tortoisesupply.com/SeedMixes
Pasture mixes or other seeds from http://www.groworganic.com/seeds.html
Homegrown alfalfa
Mazuri Tortoise Chow
ZooMed Grassland Tortoise Food
Ones that you can buy in every store:
Arugula
Lambs lettuce
Chicory
Kale
Mustard greens
Organic kohlrabi leafs
Organic carrot leafs
Organic radish leafs
Dandelions
Radiccio
Their main diet should be broad leaf weeds, succulents and grasses. Store bought foods are okay, but not the best. Collards and dandelions are a good food, but neither should be used every day. Check out the plant ID section for lots of ideas on weeds to feed. You can get spineless opuntia cactus pads from most Mexican grocery stores, or grow them yourself. You can also easily grow grape leaves, african hibiscus, regular hibiscus (if it will survive in your area), and mulberry leaves. You can try red apple, ice plant, and jade plant too. Also look into Gazania, pansies, nasturtiums, carnations, geraniums and many others. At the grocery store, favor endive and escarole, but also use cilantro, carrot tops, mustard and turnip greens, bok choy, radiccio, swiss chard, watercress, parsley, all the lettuces, etc. Lots of variety is best. There are also tortoise "weed" seed mixes that you can grow. I like the "Testudo Mix" from Tortoisesupply.com.
Buckwheat; cactus; vetch; Mohave aster; creosote bush; desert four o’clock; tacoma stans; bladderpod; globe mallow; goldenhead; burro weed; so many things!
Feeding:
So much contradictory info on this subject. Its simple. What do they eat in the wild. Grass, weeds, leaves, flowers, and succulents. Feed them a huge variety of these things, and you'll have a healthy tortoise. All of these species are very adaptable when it comes to diet and there is a very large margin of error, and many ways to do it right. What if you don't have this sort of "natural" tortoise food available for part of each year because you are in the snow? You will have no choice but to buy grocery store food. What's wrong with grocery store food? It tends to lack fiber, some items are low in calcium or have a poor calcium to phosphorous ratio, and some items have deleterious compounds in them. All of these short comings can be improved with some simple supplementation and amendments. A pinch of calcium two times per week will help fix that problem. You can also leave cuttle bone in the enclosure, so your tortoise can self-regulate its own calcium intake. What about fiber? Soaked horse hay pellets, soaked ZooMed Grassland pellets, Mazuri tortoise chow, "Salad style", "Herbal Hay" both from @TylerStewart and his lovely wife Sarah at Tortoisesupply.com, or many of the dried plants and leaves available from Will @Kapidolo Farms. If you must use grocery store foods, favor endive and escarole as your main staples. Add in arugula, cilantro, kale, collard, mustard and turnip greens, squash leaves, spring mix, romaine, green or red leaf lettuce, butter lettuce, water cress, carrot tops, celery tops, bok choy, and whatever other greens you can find. If you mix in some of the aforementioned amendments, these grocery store foods will offer plenty of variety and fiber and be able to meet your tortoises nutritional needs just fine. I find it preferable to grab a few grapevine or mulberry leaves, or a handful of mallow and clover, or some broadleaf plantain leaves and some grass, but with the right additions, grocery store stuff is fine too. Grow your own stuff, or find it around you when possible. Tyler and Sarah also sell a fantastic Testudo seed mix that is great for ALL tortoise species and also super easy to grow in pots, trays, raised garden beds, or in outdoor tortoise enclosures. When that isn't possible, add a wide variety of good stuff to your grocery store greens to make them better.
Supplements:
I recommend you keep cuttle bone available all the time. Some never use it and some munch on it regularly. Some of mine will go months without touching it, and then suddenly eat the whole thing in a day or two. Sulcatas and leopards grow a lot. This requires a tremendous amount of calcium assimilation over time. A great diet is paramount, but it is still a good idea to give them some extra calcium regularly. I use a tiny pinch of RepCal or ZooMed plain old calcium carbonate twice a week. Much discussion has been given to whether or not they need D3 in their calcium supplement. Personally, I don't think it matters. Every tortoise should be getting adequate UV exposure one way or another, so they should be able to make their own D3. I also like to use a mineral supplement. "MinerAll" is my current brand of choice. It seems tohelp those tortoises that like to swallow pebbles and rocks. It is speculated that some tortoise eat rocks or substrate due to a mineral deficiency or imbalance. Whatever the reason, "MinerAll" seems to stop it or prevent it. Finally, I like to use a reptile vitamin supplement once a week, to round out any hidden deficiencies that may be in my diet over the course of a
year.
There are four elements to heating and lighting:
Basking bulb. I use 65 watt floods from the hardware store. I run them on a timer and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb.
Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. You'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT.
Light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish.
UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. If you want it anyway, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html
You can order a perfect closed chamber from @Markw84 These are the best that I know of and they work perfectly. They come pre-built and pre-wired, and they are cheaper than if you bought all the stuff and built it yourself. They ship flat and you simply press fit it together. No tools or glue needed. Mark will be coming to Mesa in about a month to attend the annual TTPG conference. I'll bet he could bring you one and you wouldn't have to pay shipping.
Thank you very much for the recommendation, those definitely seem like the real deal. However, I am 17 years old and am paying for the tortoise on my own, so $1000 on an enclosure that my tortoise would use for maybe 2 years is simply not feasible for me currently. Are the wooden enclosures you can find on Amazon good? I think anything would be better than what I have right now, which is just a 6in high cement mixing tub. I figure I can put the heat lamp inside the enclosure and cover any screened parts in order to keep heat and humidity in?
Mine likes cabbage. I bought a dry tortoise food that Purina makes under a different name. My feed store ordered it for me. Some greens like kale can cause shell deformities. I d make sure what ever you put for bedding is safe to eat. I used alfalfa pellets. If they eat some by mistake it won't kill them. Make a pen that is as big as possible so she can get away from the heat if she wants too. You can plant rye grass in the late fall. Make sure it is pasture rye not lawn rye. My guy loves it. You can grow alfalfa too. Mine would never eat cut grass. He likes cracked corn.. weird. Likes watermelon, most melons, cukes, carrots and squash. I am in south central Texas. He doesn't like it when it gets real hot. I have a ceramic heater and thermostate in his house for when it gets cold.
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2017
- Messages
- 5,751
- Location (City and/or State)
- Low desert 50 mi SE of Palm Springs CA
In your intro post, I think you said you are using a combination basking/UVB spot bulb. These bulbs are not good...their UVB outputs are variable, and most importantly, they can and do burn the eyes of baby torts.
What you want is an ordinary incandescent flood bulb of 65 watts. This would be for basking and heat.
Then, you need a UVB source. We usually recommend an Arcadia tube light, similar to a fluorescent light. But just recently ZooMed started making UVB bulbs. I don't have a link, but @Tom will. Maybe he can offer some commentary on this new bulb.
For a closed chamber, read this post. It will give you some options.
Hi! New here
Hey! I am looking for the "frequently asked questions" and do not see it. Can someone guide me? Thanks
www.tortoiseforum.org
Quite a few members have used the grow tents or portable greenhouses with great success.
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2017
- Messages
- 5,751
- Location (City and/or State)
- Low desert 50 mi SE of Palm Springs CA
Canchaser, unfortunately many of the foods you have mentioned are not good for tortoises. Melons, watermelon, carrots, and corn are all loaded with sugar. Torts' GI systems are not designed for digesting sugars.
Take a long look at the food list I posted in post # 2. These are the foods that will keep your tort healthy.
Also kale does not make deformity...rabbit pellets are likely to cause a condition called "splay leg" their legs are strong enuf to walk on pellets...bad, no kale, bad...have you bothered to read OUR care sheets which are top of the line currant...almost everything you said was wrong, and cabbage is the WORST thing...causes gout in most torts. Try reading our care sheet
I suggest you shouldn't put a lot of money in any enclosure for a young sulcata. They can and probably will grow very quick. @Yvonne G sets up a simple and inexpensive closed chamber chamber for young tortoise's that works well. And you being in Arizona you most likely can get your baby outside a few times a week in the sun like @Tom said that is all that's needed for proper uv. So I wouldn't spend a bunch of money on special lighting. Humidity, proper diet and natural sun rays are the most important things your tortoise needs right now. When I said that they may grow quick I have one that turned 3 in August and last week weighed 46 pounds. I also have a 26 year that I've raised from a hatchling that is 150 pounds. I hope you will enjoy raising yours as much as I have raising Walker.
Thank you so much for the suggestion of the grow tent! I think that’s the path I’ll go, it’s much easier for me to see setting up one of those rather than using all my money on an enclosure or attempting to build one myself😂 What do I use at night while the basking bulb is off to keep her warm? Should I use a humidifier to keep humidity up and, if so, would I just put it near her enclosure or would it have to be in it somehow? Also, what hygrometer/thermometer would be best and most accurate to measure the temperature and humidity of the enclosure? Do I need to buy multiple to put in different places?In your intro post, I think you said you are using a combination basking/UVB spot bulb. These bulbs are not good...their UVB outputs are variable, and most importantly, they can and do burn the eyes of baby torts.
What you want is an ordinary incandescent flood bulb of 65 watts. This would be for basking and heat.
Then, you need a UVB source. We usually recommend an Arcadia tube light, similar to a fluorescent light. But just recently ZooMed started making UVB bulbs. I don't have a link, but @Tom will. Maybe he can offer some commentary on this new bulb.
For a closed chamber, read this post. It will give you some options.
Hi! New here
Hey! I am looking for the "frequently asked questions" and do not see it. Can someone guide me? Thanks
Quite a few members have used the grow tents or portable greenhouses with great success.
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2017
- Messages
- 5,751
- Location (City and/or State)
- Low desert 50 mi SE of Palm Springs CA
When deciding which grow tent to buy, remember that it will be turned onto its side for your use. So the advertised height of the tent will be the length, and the advertised width will be its height.
For additional heat, you need a CHE (ceramic heating element) that is controlled by a thermostat. You set the thermostat at 80°. The t-stat will turn on the CHE when the temp falls below 80°, and turns it off when it's higher than 80°. It's just like your furnace at home...it comes on and off as needed to maintain a set temp.
CHE's can be bought at any pet store or ordered from Amazon. Along with it, you need a thermostat, and an 8-10 inch hood with a ceramic socket. If you don't want a hood, you can just buy a ceramic socket at Lowe's or Home Depot. Walmart might even carry them. If you buy a hood, make sure it's 8-10in diameter. CHE's run very hot and will melt ordinary plastic sockets. Also, most hoods come with clamp brackets. You must secure the hood to keep it from falling if the clamp fails. There are many horror stories of failed clamps and the resultant fires, entire houses burning down, and one member's hatchling was fatally injured when the hood fell onto it.
Do not use a humidifier. It creates actual droplets of water in the air, and breathing them may lead to a upper respiratory infection (URI). You will find people who will argue this point, but when spritzing and dampening the substrate works so well, why run another appliance and take that chance?
I went onto Amazon and ordered a pack of battery powered thermo/hygro's for a few bucks. They came 4 /pack. That way you can place one wherever you want. You will also have a temp probe on your t-stat that will determine when it turns on/off. Don't buy the round temp/hygros that the pet stores sell...they are notoriously inaccurate. Order them from Amazon or go to Lowe's/Home Depot/Walmart to buy them.
Now, I know that in your reading you've learned that it's impossible to tell gender at this age. You'll have to wait for several years before you know for sure. But in the meantime, what is your sweet baby's name? And we love pictures (hint hint). I mean, we really LOVE pictures!
Thank you so much! I feel so much better about everything now! I’ve just been calling her “she” because she was a lot smaller than her siblings, I have no idea😂 I named her Turbo because she likes to speed around her enclosure all fast haha, also a good name for a male or female. I will send some pics when I get home tonight!
Welcome, hang in there. I know it all seems overwhelming right now. But it will become second nature with time. You can grow small pots of wheatgrass. Start a pot then 3 days later start another and start one 3 days after that. As the wheatgrass grows you can use your scissors and cut grass on top of other foods. Calcium is very important, you can either by cuttle bones for birds or the powdered Calcium. 2 to 3 times a week sprinkler a small pinch on the food.
You could also get some cactus pads at a Latin market and plant. I have 6 fairly large plants. They produce plenty of pads for Opo.
Good luck and hang in there. It will get easier with time.
You could also get some cactus pads at a Latin market and plant. I have 6 fairly large plants. They produce plenty of pads for Opo.
Good luck and hang in there. It will get easier with time.
Here are what you are looking for. You want a digital thermo/hydrometer placed in the enclosure at the same level as your Turbo.
Also a infrared temp gun is very useful. You will know the temperature in all areas of the enclosure. Do not point at the eyes of people or animals. You can check the temp of Turbos shell just keep away from eyes.
Also a infrared temp gun is very useful. You will know the temperature in all areas of the enclosure. Do not point at the eyes of people or animals. You can check the temp of Turbos shell just keep away from eyes.
