New russians arrived today, what sex are they?

[tortoise_addict]

I was suppose to get two female Russian tortoises but I am almost positive they are males
There tails are almost the same length of there back legs and they hold them to the side. There feels like a little hook at the end of one. I know for sure one of these torts is very old. They are quite a bit bigger than my two Russians Tink and Pan but they do not weigh as much. They feel hollow almost. They are eating well and I feel so sorry for them but what to do with 4 boys. My camera was not wanting to work so the pictures I was able to get are not that great. They are settling in to there new temp home and I soaked them for quite some time.
Here are the pics and let me know what you think.
Thanks

These were suppose to be guaranteed females so let me know before I call the place I bought them.
Thanks

 

[egyptiandan]

I'm afraid they are both males, most definately

Danny

 

[tortoise_addict]

Grrrrr, I am sick of dealing with sellers on the internet. So much for a guarantee.lol
Thank you for backing up what I knew and was trying to deny

 

[cvalda]

yep danny's definately right, no questioning those boys' manliness!

are you going to try to find a female?

 

[tortoise_addict]

yep danny's definately right, no questioning those boys' manliness!

are you going to try to find a female?

I just spent money on buying two girls.lol
Now I might be stuck with two boys that I did not want. I know I can not house all these boys separately and they can not be housed together, can they?
I feel so bad for them because they have been passed around and one is either really old or really anorexic. I do not know what I am going to do yet. I hate wasting money but I hate stressing animals more.
I doubt I will try and buy anything else. I know all these boys can not stay here but I will just be happy with two Russians and 1 Greek for now and figure out what to do with our new house guests (shrug).

 

[cvalda]

You know, people will say you shouldn't really house males together, but you can keep an eye on them and see how they are together. I used to have a large group of Russians that included five males, and they all got along just fine. The only time it was an issue was when one of them was "in the mood" and he wouldn't differentiate between male and female, the other boys didn't like to be "man-handled". LOL!

(I'm sure there may be dissenting opinion here, LOL)

 

[tortoise_addict]

You know, people will say you shouldn't really house males together, but you can keep an eye on them and see how they are together. I used to have a large group of Russians that included five males, and they all got along just fine. The only time it was an issue was when one of them was "in the mood" and he wouldn't differentiate between male and female, the other boys didn't like to be "man-handled". LOL!

(I'm sure there may be dissenting opinion here, LOL)

Thats funny.

 

[Yvonne G]

In my opinion, the seller should pay to have you ship them back and you should get your money back. That's what I would do.

However, if you want to keep them, it has been my experience that males can live together, but you have to provide a very large area for them with many site barriers and lots of hiding places. It would be best if they were outside in a very large pen. Russians are extremely aggressive fighters. And if they do decide to fight, it will be bloody.

Yvonne

 

[Jacqui]

What did the seller say, when you informed him they were males, not the females you had ordered?

I just almost a month ago now, brought in my Russians for the winter. I placed the group of males into a separate enclosure from the two female groups. They are all getting along fine. Of course take into consideration these males have lived together all summer and are not currently in an active breeding mode. Most problems tend to happen when one or more females are added to the mix. Males alone normally can tolerate each other.

If you keep them, try to see if the two males that came in together, will get along. If they do, then once they are out of their quarantine period, try adding the other males.

As said before having plenty of room, several hides, and lots of visual barriers is key, too.

 

[tortoise_addict]

I am trying to decide weather to keep them or try and place them. The guy who ownes the store would have reluctantly given me a full refund and had me ship them back but I can not do it to these poor tortoises. I settled for partial refund and I can either keep them or not. He pretty much made it clear these torts were a pain in his a$$ from day one. He has had them for a while and they have been passed around for months. I could not ship them back after hearing him say he hated them. So I most likely will keep one or both. Not sure yet. They are really underweight but glad to have steady food, heat and water. They eat as much as I put out and its a lot. They are enjoying there flowers and leaves.
Here is the healthier one I call Sheldon (He is much heavier than the poor other guy)

This guy I call Granpa or Gramps. He has a very old wise look to him. You can tell by his nails and eyes and just overall appearance he is an aged tort. He eats and sleeps. That is it.
He is the one that feels hollow and like his shell is completely empty. He has no energy but he eats and I am sure with time he will bulk back up.

 

[egyptiandan]

They don't look to bad. You've got the ages switched around though.
The first tortoise is the oldest and the second one is younger.

Danny

 

[tortoise_addict]

They don't look to bad. You've got the ages switched around though.
The first tortoise is the oldest and the second one is younger.

Danny

Thanks!!

 

[tortoise_addict]

It all worked out for the better and I learned a bit today.
I happened upon a avid tortoise owner/breeder and lover. I told him I had two male Russians that were adult and just got shipped to me this week. I explained they were suppose to be females and so on. Turns out he lives on 7 acres and has over 40 torts with amazing outdoor enclosures. He snatched these two boys up. I thought Gramps and Shelldon were old torts. He said heck no they were maybe 5-6 years and that Tink and Pan were probably 3-4 years old. Turns out I have soooo much to learn and study still with these guys.
So the two boys are in an awesome home and a lifetime one at that. He has had torts for 30+ years and his sons love them too. So those guys will stay in there family on there tort farm for forever. Yeah, for Shelldon and Gramps. I barely broke even with a partial refund and the adoption fee of these guys. Just a couple bucks lost and a couple lucky torts got a great home.
I am still out a female russian but the time will come.

 

[turtlemom]

They don't look to bad. You've got the ages switched around though.
The first tortoise is the oldest and the second one is younger.

Danny

Danny, how can you tell that? I have so much to learn! Just wondering if you can explain what differences you see between those guys.

Thanks!
Donna

 

[egyptiandan]

In the wild they live in sandy soil and it wears on the shell when they dig in to aestivate and hibernate. The first males shell is smoother than the second male. Also mature male Russians get a "roman" nose. If you look at the first picture of the first male, the upper beak (below the nose) bulges out. On the second male it's only just started to do that.

Danny

 

[turtlemom]

In the wild they live in sandy soil and it wears on the shell when they dig in to aestivate and hibernate. The first males shell is smoother than the second male. Also mature male Russians get a "roman" nose. If you look at the first picture of the first male, the upper beak (below the nose) bulges out. On the second male it's only just started to do that.

Danny

Thanks, Danny! I'll go back and check the pictures again. A russian with a roman nose . . . that sounds funny

Donna