New kid on the block with 2 baby torts

[PenguinMan]

Hey there boys n girls!

I have just joined the forum today after picking up mine n the Mrs new little hatchling (2-3 months) yesterday.

So far I reckon everything's going smooth...

They were both born on the same day and we are currently keeping them in the same enclosure (temporarily an ex guinea-pig cage, minus the cage bit) until they get a little bit older and we find out how well they get on living together.
We are hoping they will be OK but do realise they may need separating.

Atm one of the torts is just burying down and not moving much (hopefully just getting settled in) and the other is pottering about checking out his new pad!

We haven't 100% decided on names yet but are thinking PeanButter and Jelly, what do you guys think?

Pics below...
Left is PeanButter
Right is Jelly
&
Temporary enclosure while they're teeny tiny

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

Hello

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi, and welcome to the forum!

 

[Carol S]

Welcome to the Forum. Your baby tortoises are adorable.

 

[PenguinMan]

Cheers guys n suppose i should say where I'm from ...

Deepest darkest TODMORDEN, UK

 

[wellington]

Hello and Welcome. Be sure to check out the great caresheet in the Hermanns section. Love the names.

 

[AnimalLady]

Hello and welcome! Cute torts!

 

[stojanovski92113]

Hi

 

[Tom]

Hello and welcome.

Your strategy of wait and see is a common one, but they are already telling you they don't wan't to be together. Tortoises really should not be house in pairs. Even without the overt, obvious hostility, just the presence of the other one is enough to seriously stress whichever one feels less dominant.

Check this out:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/pairs.34837/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

 

[PenguinMan]

Thanks for the links Tom,
I've already researched into it a bit and have already got a backup seperation plan if needs be and I've literally just been to check on the torts and they're all snuggled up side by side which is cool n we shall see in the future but we are prepared if needs be.

 

[Lyn W]

Thanks for the links Tom,
I've already researched into it a bit and have already got a backup seperation plan if needs be and I've literally just been to check on the torts and they're all snuggled up side by side which is cool n we shall see in the future but we are prepared if needs be.

HI and welcome to the forum from another Brit!
Keep a close eye out though because torts don't snuggle, one may just be trying to edge the other off a good spot - bullying isn't necessarily aggressive it can be very subtle and you may not even know it's happening.
YOu could do with a bigger enclosure really for the two and maybe a second hide. A few plants in there for them to hide under will also make them feel more secure. Check out www.thetortoisetable.org.uk for tort safe plants. If you buy shop bought you will need to repot in chemical/fertiliser free soil and wait for any chemicals to grow out. so cuttings from any established safe plants will be best if you can get them.
What are you using for uvb and night heat? It's getting pretty nippy here in UK now.

 

[PenguinMan]

Hey Lynn, good to see another brit on here was just thinking as scrolling through the forums that there wasn't an awful lot of us ha!
I'm using an arcadia mini D3 80w basking lamp every day for around 12 -14 hours and I have been looking into different night time heating as they are getting pretty low now would you recommend anything in particular? The breeder I received them off said they would be okay burying down in the topsoil for a while until it starts to get colder. But it's slowly getting there... and I'm also cracking on tomorrow building their bigger indoor enclosure.

 

[Lyn W]

Hey Lynn, good to see another brit on here was just thinking as scrolling through the forums that there wasn't an awful lot of us ha!
I'm using an arcadia mini D3 80w basking lamp every day for around 12 -14 hours and I have been looking into different night time heating as they are getting pretty low now would you recommend anything in particular? The breeder I received them off said they would be okay burying down in the topsoil for a while until it starts to get colder. But it's slowly getting there... and I'm also cracking on tomorrow building their bigger indoor enclosure.

There are quite a few members from all over UK here. This is a great forum and I have learned so much from people all over the world and by following all advice I have had a healthy tort for the last 18 months (touch wood).
I use the Arcadia too its been good but very sensitive to knocks and movement so be careful with it - they aren't cheap.
At night I use a 100w Ceramic Heat Emitter (CHE) this just gives heat as torts need darkness go sleep. It screws in like a bulb and have that in wide dome reflector hood/shade to direct the heat down. The CHE is run through a thermostat so that it switches on and off as needed. I got all 3 at The Range - CHE about £21, Thermostat £34, hood £25. Think they are all Komodo brand.
You will need to keep your babies warm night and day no lower than about 80'F at least for babies I believe - the caresheet will tell you what temps humidity diet substrate etc is best.
Take a look at the Enclosure Thread for ideas for yours and to see what others have done and for recommended sizes A cover of some sort will help with your heat and humidity levels. Another thing I have found invaluable is a digital temp gun which you can spot check temps without struggling to read the little dials.(Amazon about £10).

 

[Speedy-1]

Hi and welcome !

 

[PenguinMan]

There are quite a few members from all over UK here. This is a great forum and I have learned so much from people all over the world and by following all advice I have had a healthy tort for the last 18 months (touch wood).
I use the Arcadia too its been good but very sensitive to knocks and movement so be careful with it - they aren't cheap.
At night I use a 100w Ceramic Heat Emitter (CHE) this just gives heat as torts need darkness go sleep. It screws in like a bulb and have that in wide dome reflector hood/shade to direct the heat down. The CHE is run through a thermostat so that it switches on and off as needed. I got all 3 at The Range - CHE about £21, Thermostat £34, hood £25. Think they are all Komodo brand.
You will need to keep your babies warm night and day no lower than about 80'F at least for babies I believe - the caresheet will tell you what temps humidity diet substrate etc is best.
Take a look at the Enclosure Thread for ideas for yours and to see what others have done and for recommended sizes A cover of some sort will help with your heat and humidity levels. Another thing I have found invaluable is a digital temp gun which you can spot check temps without struggling to read the little dials.(Amazon about £10).

Cheers again lyn, would the CHE need to be over where they are sleeping or just at the same end as the basking bulb?

 

[ZEROPILOT]

A substrate better at holding some moisture would be better suited as you want to elevate the humidity for your babies.
They are cold blooded creatures, so you can understand that they aren't "cuddling" for warmth or because they like each other. It's already a small battle for the nicest sleeping spot. (As adult tortoises living outdoors, I often see this same behavior and it ends up with an aggressive tortoise in the good spot and a less aggressive one left sitting out in the grass for the night.) They will have to be living apart eventually. Or together in a very large enclosure. If this is the route you choose, then most of us have three or more tortoises because it keeps any single tortoise from being bullied.

 

[PenguinMan]

The humidity isn't an issue where I live floods a lot and I usually have 2 big dehumidifiers running at all times in my house and average humidity levels in the room they are in are easily over 70% and I'm making my new enclosure today and we were thinking about getting a third already so we will see and adopt one if needs be

 

[Tom]

Thanks for the links Tom,
I've already researched into it a bit and have already got a backup seperation plan if needs be and I've literally just been to check on the torts and they're all snuggled up side by side which is cool n we shall see in the future but we are prepared if needs be.

You are welcome.

Whenever I try to say things diplomatically, the message often suffers. So I'm just going to spell it out plainly, hopefully with the understanding that I have nothing but good intentions and your tortoises well being in mind.

Animal behavior has been my career since the early 90's. I find that people in general misunderstand animal behavior. Before I was educated in the subject and practiced, I misunderstood too. Let me explain: Your tortoises are not cuddling. They are crowding each other. One wants to leave the territory of the other, and the other one wants him/her to leave. When they crowd together its because they both want to be in that spot. Its like two little kids pushing and shoving to be first in line. Sometimes people see the tortoises following each other around the enclosure and assume they like each other and want to be together. What is actually happening is the tortoise equivalent of "mad dogging". Its not playful, its intimidation and harassment. Can you imagine someone following you around your house, right on your heels all day giving you the stink eye? Following is one tortoise telling the other," HEY! GET OUT OF MY TERRITORY!!!" There are many examples of this. We've had videos of classic tortoise aggression here several times, and most of the viewers actually believed that one tortoise was actually "helping his friend", when in fact he was ramming his mortal enemy while it was on its back, because of the previous ramming. When the tortoise accidentally flipped its enemy back on to its feet and then proceeded to chase its rival out of its territory, the general reaction was that he was following his "friend" to make sure he was okay… I think you get what I mean.

Potentially, a lot of damage can and will occur long before you ever witness pushing, shoving or biting. The signs are there right now and I'm hoping to get that point across to you earlier, rather than later.

Okay. That's all from me. Good luck and I'm hoping for the best for you and yours.

 

[Tom]

The humidity isn't an issue where I live floods a lot and I usually have 2 big dehumidifiers running at all times in my house and average humidity levels in the room they are in are easily over 70% and I'm making my new enclosure today and we were thinking about getting a third already so we will see and adopt one if needs be

Get a hygrometer and put it inside your enclosure. Even in rooms with very high humidity, our heat lamps seriously dry out the air inside the enclosure. Check it and you might be surprised. If you check it and humidity is already where it should be then, you are all done and don't have to do anything. If you check it and find it surprisingly low, you can then fix it before it does any long term damage.

 

[Lyn W]

I'm making my new enclosure today and we were thinking about getting a third already so we will see and adopt one if needs be

If you are planning on getting another tort you will still have to consider the gender mix to avoid stressing them out and the more you have the bigger the enclosure you need to make sure that they can each have their own space and avoid each other.
A 4 foot by 8 foot enclosure is recommended for just one tort just to give you an idea of how big you will need for more than one, and the bigger the enclosure the more heat etc you will need. So lots to think about and prepare for rather than rush things.
(I assume you know that you shouldn't mix species)