New here, need quick response for UVB Lighting question

[darthsmozers]

Hi Darthsmozers:

I would like to put you mind at ease and let you know that you are NOT asking too many questions! Since you joined the forum to learn, we expect you to ask. One day down the road, YOU will be the one answering those questions, so keep learning! We expect it of you!!

Yvonne

Thank you

I found a Powersun mercury bulb (100w) at the pet store and was able to price match it to the link that was provided a few posts up. Thats one piece down. Trying to find a dome with a porcelin or ceramic socket now. no luck at Home Depot or Ace Hardware, may have to buy online and wait

 

[Meg90]

If you call the hardware stores, ask for brooder lamps--most stores carry them for farmers to use on chicks etc.

Also, is your setup for a hatchling russian? Or an adult?

I can make more recommendations on bedding once I know.

 

[darthsmozers]

If you call the hardware stores, ask for brooder lamps--most stores carry them for farmers to use on chicks etc.

Also, is your setup for a hatchling russian? Or an adult?

I can make more recommendations on bedding once I know.

Tried a few, but they only have those with plastic sockets. I might just pick one up at the pet store. Is it better to have 5", 8", or 10" domes?

We assume he's less than a year based on the pet store where we got him typically gets reptiles in under a year old, or so they claim.

PS - how old are your tortoise(s)?

 

[Meg90]

you need a 10 inch dome for sure.

Also, can you post a picture? If you got him from a pet store, odds are he's WC, and much older than 1 yr.

Right now I own a 11 yr old Greek, a yearling Greek, and I have one baby that is closing in on four months (on the 25th of this month).

Once I see a pic, I can guesstimate age. Russians need a different bedding if they still have alot of growing to do. Humidity is important to young torts, and I have a trick that seems to do the charm for smooth growth. (at least for me and my torts )

 

[darthsmozers]

you need a 10 inch dome for sure.

Also, can you post a picture? If you got him from a pet store, odds are he's WC, and much older than 1 yr.

Right now I own a 11 yr old Greek, a yearling Greek, and I have one baby that is closing in on four months (on the 25th of this month).

Once I see a pic, I can guesstimate age. Russians need a different bedding if they still have alot of growing to do. Humidity is important to young torts, and I have a trick that seems to do the charm for smooth growth. (at least for me and my torts )

Sorry, what does WC mean?

photo attached.

 

[Yvonne G]

"WC" means wild caught. Your tortoise looks to me to be full grown, that is to say much older than a year. He's probably as big as he's going to get.

Yvonne

 

[darthsmozers]

"WC" means wild caught. Your tortoise looks to me to be full grown, that is to say much older than a year. He's probably as big as he's going to get.

Yvonne

at only 4 inches or so shell length? i thought they can grow 6-8"?

Could he still be considered "Relatively young" compared to the average lifespan?

 

[Yvonne G]

Its the females that get that big. The males don't get much bigger than 5" measured in a straight line front to back. Yes, I would say he's relatively young. His ridged carapace testifies to that fact. If he were very old it would have worn smooth.

Yvonne

 

[Meg90]

He will live for a long time. If you are curious to see what a yearling tort looks like, check out my other threads. My yearling's name is Anouk.

You could switch his bedding to aspen if you'd like. I use it for my adult Greek. I buy it in the small animal section. I get a much larger bag than what they offer in the reptile section, and its the same product. I think KT makes it. Its called Aspen bedding, and should say something like "no aromatic oils--safe for all small pets!"

 

[tortoisenerd]

I also use shredded aspen. Yes it can be a little dusty, but I have a few preventative measures: I buy the 45 lb bags which have less of the dust as then I don't have to use the way bottom of the bag, I have my tort out of the room when I change it out as yes some dust flies around, and I don't notice it being dusty when he's just walking and digging on it. Make sure you do not use cedar, pine, or any mix of wood that is not labeled as it could have a toxic wood in it. Aspen is 100% safe. For some breeds it is not ideal as they need a moist substrate to prevent pyramiding, but Russians are not very prone to it and I feel fine recommending a dry substrate for Russians.

The 10 inch dome fixture refers to the diameter, not depth. The depth varies, and a 10 inch diameter one does not ensure it will be deep. You can get a 10 inch diameter one that is less deep than others. Ideally you want both 10 inch diameter plus deep, but I actually have never seen these. You either get a more shallow 10 inch diameter one, or one more like 8 inch diameter but more deep. I liked the larger diameter one as it had less glare, although the bulb did stick out. It is a personal preference though. I use very deep substrate and the "small" lamp stand would not have gone tall enough for my set-up, so you may want to figure that out first. You don't want the lamp stand to inhibit how deep you make the substrate. I recommend substrate as least as deep as the tortoise is long, preferably more. Russians are generally big on digging/burrowing, more so than Greeks for example.

Yes, I agree a male Russian may only be 4-6 inches in Straight Carapace Length (SCL). Google this to see if this is how you measured the tort. Sadly the reason many of the wild caught torts you see in stores are just over 4 inches is because of the 4 inch law, and that they can pack more in the shipping containers this way, stacked on top of each other.

Please take the tort for a vet check up at a tort specialist (see our list on the home page if you need a recommendation) with a fecal exam (bring a sample within 24 hours if possible, you can refrigerate) to check for parasites. Get a re-test about 2-3 months after the first one, and yearly after that. The life cycles of parasites are such they can be missed the first few times as the numbers may not be high enough (torts typically will have multiple parasites). This is my number one advice for new tort owners as this is an issue close to my heart with my little one (turned out well so far for us though). This will establish your tort as a patient in case of an emergency so it is more likely the vet will fit the tort in the schedule, and also to make sure your tort is healthy as it is difficult to know what to look for as a new tort owner.

I also agree the average pet store either lies to sell their overpriced junk (I could not do a proper enclosure with what they sold, and buy 95% of my stuff online on in hardware stores), or thinks they are giving awesome advice when in fact they are not (their manager will tell them what to say). Important thing is now this tort will have a happy home. Glad to see you recognize some changes are in order for the tort to thrive.

Most pellets are junk. You don't want anything with with artificial colors, anything sweet, or anything that has starches/grains. If you feel the need to feed a commercial diet (I would recommend less than 1 day a week for example), Mazuri Tortoise Diet and ZooMed Grassland Tortoise Food are the only two I have seen that are ok. Look at russiantortoise.org for a great list of greens to feed. I like organic spring mix for about half of my Russian's diet, with other greens, weeds, etc, mixed in (I will buy 1-2 a week and rotate through a list). If you can grow any food for your tort, this can be an awesome thing. Even trays can be used to grow seeds in your kitchen if you don't have a yard. Some people take it a step further and use grow lights.

Two things you want to watch out for are oxalic acid (in greens like collard and mustard) and goiterens (in greens like kale). Although these dark leafy greens are great as part of a varied diet, you want to watch you don't feed primarily foods that are high in either of these. I like to look up the nutritional information of the foods I feed my tort so I am aware, and try to get him a good varied diet. For example, I'll feed the spring mix (low oxalic acid), and then one or two other greens that may have oxalic acid. The next week I'll mix it up again. The spring mix brands all have different ingredients too. By visiting a variety of stores (especially organic and specialty stores) you can find a wide variety of tortoise foods. Become friends with the produce person and find out when they get deliveries, and if they can special order anything for you.

Cute tort! Best wishes.

 

[darthsmozers]

Its the females that get that big. The males don't get much bigger than 5" measured in a straight line front to back. Yes, I would say he's relatively young. His ridged carapace testifies to that fact. If he were very old it would have worn smooth.

Yvonne

cool, thanks!

---

He will live for a long time. If you are curious to see what a yearling tort looks like, check out my other threads. My yearling's name is Anouk.

You could switch his bedding to aspen if you'd like. I use it for my adult Greek. I buy it in the small animal section. I get a much larger bag than what they offer in the reptile section, and its the same product. I think KT makes it. Its called Aspen bedding, and should say something like "no aromatic oils--safe for all small pets!"

More good info, thanks! Finally found a lamp yesterday at Lowe's. They only had one. 10 inch diameter with a ceramic socket. We have a tall/thin pole lamp that we put next to the terrarium, and that works perfectly as a stand for the clamp. The bulb is the 100w Powersun MVB. doesnt seem to heat the terrarium as high as the regular old 100w UVA bulb we had in there before. trying out the MVB today to see what the temp gets to to see if I need to use the UVA with it or not. Seems to be in the higher 80s under the lamp, and in the 70s in his cooler corners.

so glad to have found the lamp finally.

---

I also use shredded aspen. Yes it can be a little dusty, but I have a few preventative measures: I buy the 45 lb bags which have less of the dust as then I don't have to use the way bottom of the bag, I have my tort out of the room when I change it out as yes some dust flies around, and I don't notice it being dusty when he's just walking and digging on it. Make sure you do not use cedar, pine, or any mix of wood that is not labeled as it could have a toxic wood in it. Aspen is 100% safe. For some breeds it is not ideal as they need a moist substrate to prevent pyramiding, but Russians are not very prone to it and I feel fine recommending a dry substrate for Russians.

The 10 inch dome fixture refers to the diameter, not depth. The depth varies, and a 10 inch diameter one does not ensure it will be deep. You can get a 10 inch diameter one that is less deep than others. Ideally you want both 10 inch diameter plus deep, but I actually have never seen these. You either get a more shallow 10 inch diameter one, or one more like 8 inch diameter but more deep. I liked the larger diameter one as it had less glare, although the bulb did stick out. It is a personal preference though. I use very deep substrate and the "small" lamp stand would not have gone tall enough for my set-up, so you may want to figure that out first. You don't want the lamp stand to inhibit how deep you make the substrate. I recommend substrate as least as deep as the tortoise is long, preferably more. Russians are generally big on digging/burrowing, more so than Greeks for example.

Yes, I agree a male Russian may only be 4-6 inches in Straight Carapace Length (SCL). Google this to see if this is how you measured the tort. Sadly the reason many of the wild caught torts you see in stores are just over 4 inches is because of the 4 inch law, and that they can pack more in the shipping containers this way, stacked on top of each other.

Please take the tort for a vet check up at a tort specialist (see our list on the home page if you need a recommendation) with a fecal exam (bring a sample within 24 hours if possible, you can refrigerate) to check for parasites. Get a re-test about 2-3 months after the first one, and yearly after that. The life cycles of parasites are such they can be missed the first few times as the numbers may not be high enough (torts typically will have multiple parasites). This is my number one advice for new tort owners as this is an issue close to my heart with my little one (turned out well so far for us though). This will establish your tort as a patient in case of an emergency so it is more likely the vet will fit the tort in the schedule, and also to make sure your tort is healthy as it is difficult to know what to look for as a new tort owner.

I also agree the average pet store either lies to sell their overpriced junk (I could not do a proper enclosure with what they sold, and buy 95% of my stuff online on in hardware stores), or thinks they are giving awesome advice when in fact they are not (their manager will tell them what to say). Important thing is now this tort will have a happy home. Glad to see you recognize some changes are in order for the tort to thrive.

Most pellets are junk. You don't want anything with with artificial colors, anything sweet, or anything that has starches/grains. If you feel the need to feed a commercial diet (I would recommend less than 1 day a week for example), Mazuri Tortoise Diet and ZooMed Grassland Tortoise Food are the only two I have seen that are ok. Look at russiantortoise.org for a great list of greens to feed. I like organic spring mix for about half of my Russian's diet, with other greens, weeds, etc, mixed in (I will buy 1-2 a week and rotate through a list). If you can grow any food for your tort, this can be an awesome thing. Even trays can be used to grow seeds in your kitchen if you don't have a yard. Some people take it a step further and use grow lights.

Two things you want to watch out for are oxalic acid (in greens like collard and mustard) and goiterens (in greens like kale). Although these dark leafy greens are great as part of a varied diet, you want to watch you don't feed primarily foods that are high in either of these. I like to look up the nutritional information of the foods I feed my tort so I am aware, and try to get him a good varied diet. For example, I'll feed the spring mix (low oxalic acid), and then one or two other greens that may have oxalic acid. The next week I'll mix it up again. The spring mix brands all have different ingredients too. By visiting a variety of stores (especially organic and specialty stores) you can find a wide variety of tortoise foods. Become friends with the produce person and find out when they get deliveries, and if they can special order anything for you.

Cute tort! Best wishes.

Wow, TONS of good info! Thanks!

Let's see if I can address some of these briefly.

Substrate is about 2" deep, so looks like we'll have to go deeper. Its just so expensive (although changing substrate type may help that). You are right, he loves to burrow. Often we come home from work and can't find him except for a lump under the bedding.
Seems like its ReptiBark: http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752663

Diet: Thank you for the info about the oxalic acid. We ran quickly from the pet store's "recommended diet" of fruits, tomatoes, etc and have been feeding him only a mix of kale, collard greens, romaine, and red-leaf lettuce. We'll try lessening the kale and collard and put some spring mix in there. is it true to remove and spinach from the spring mix? i read that somewhere... we also use RepCal calcium dust every other day or so. http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754048

As far as the vet goes, we went to Eastern Exotic Pet Center, which is one of the vets listed on your list. We took him last Wednesday I think. They were pretty good, though when we asked some specific questions about Russians, like the diet supplements (they sell them there) and the types of greens and amounts of food, the doctor seemed only semi-knowledgeable. So that was a little dissapointing, and emphasizes how frustrating this has been to get good info. She did recommend a less-dusty substrate though, and recommended a brand that sells essentially shredded newspaper (or we shred our own). Any thoughts on this? She also did a bathroom test, and gave us a 5-day medicine for parasites. The tort wouldn't open his mouth for anything, so for 5 days we mixed it in with his greens. We fooled him most of the time, but sometimes he got wise and turned his nose up. We went for a 6th day just to make sure he got enough of it. We're waiting for his next bathroom so we can take another sample back to the vet. He seems to go when we're at work, and by the time we get home its dried out...

As I posted in a reply above, I found a 10" dome with ceramic socket last night, so we're very happy to finally let him use his new MVB today, since all he's had was the UVA bulb the pet store sold us, for the last 3 weeks or so. We're hoping this will be good for him now.

I think that covers it all!

 

[tortoisenerd]

Deeper substrate sounds awesome. It gives a tort something to do and simulates the wild. I get a HUGE 45 lb bag of aspen shavings for $25 at a local place, compared to $10 for a bag that is about 1% of the size. If you shop around and buy online (not in pet stores), you can get something cheaper no problem. I think smaller particles than bark are easier for torts to walk on and dig in. It is really a personal choice and every owner and tort seems to have their preference. No problem with trying different things. You may be replacing substrate every few months if you keep a good handle on the messes, so just try a new one each time until you really like something. That said, I disagree strongly with shredded newspaper. It is nothing like they would get in the wild. Who cares if a substrate is messy? What parasite did he test positive for and get treated for? Dried out is ok for a fecal test. Ideally it should be within 24 hours. You can put it in the refrigerator (I double bag it). Yay for the new bulb. I wouldn't be surprised if he really perked up. Do you have an accurate thermometer? Make sure you have a good temperature gradient, about 70-95 degrees F.

Yes, pick out the spinach if the spring mix comes with it. This has about the highest amount of oxalic acid of any green. Not all brands have it though. You should be able to read the label on the container/bag. Look for one with the most variety, and if you can find one without spinach that will save you time. Sorry the vet didn't have as much knowledge as you would have liked, but I guess the important thing was you got the fecal test done, assuming they were correct in that. Good luck with the re-test! The calcium you linked to has D3. I recommend just pure calcium, as the tortoise produces D3 from UVB. It is a fat soluble not water soluble vitamin, so the tortoise can be overdosed on it. D3 would only be recommended if the tortoise is kept indoors without D3 (typically people only do this when they bring in a tortoise for winter from outside). Yes, every other or every third day a dusting of pure calcium is appropriate for a full grown Russian. I recently found a "cheese" shaker works well, even better than a salt shaker since it has larger holes. You can even buy the human calcium carbonate powder as it is cheaper than the reptile stuff and a larger bottle (plus regulated by the FDA).

 

[darthsmozers]

What parasite did he test positive for and get treated for?

I'll have to look at his paperwork. Good news is the re-test came back negative!

Yay for the new bulb. I wouldn't be surprised if he really perked up.

He has been really active in his substrate the last two days. moving things around, digging new holes to sleep in. Pretty funny. We also found some stool in his large water dish, meaning he took a bath. Not sure how I feel about that in case he drank any water afterwards, so we may have to go with a smaller water dish. But good to know he knows how to hydrate himself.

Odd: since the new bulb (coincidence?) he seems to be going to the bathroom (stool) once a day every day, for about 4 days now, as opposed to his previous once every few days. Not watery or soft, pretty well formed actually. Also, haven't seen the white urate in a long while - when we first got him, we saw the urate every time he urinated. Any thoughts?