1. Welcome! Are you interested in tortoises? If so, we invite you to join our community! Our community is the #1 place for tortoise keepers to talk online. Once you join you'll be able to post messages, upload pictures of your tortoise and enclosure, and discuss any tortoise topic with other tortoise keepers. Get started today!

My tortoise ... hates, loves, unhappy, lonely... some part of it's life.

Discussion in 'Advanced Tortoise Topics' started by Kapidolo Farms, Nov 3, 2016.

Help Support Tortoise Forums by donating:

  1. drew54

    drew54 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2018
    Messages:
    885
    Likes Received:
    836
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location (City and/or State):
    Indiana
    As a behavioral specialist I agree with everything, but then being born sociopaths. They are more narcissist than anything. Sociopaths feel almost nothing and this is because they lack basic emotional understanding and most of all lack empathy. Anyway, back to your point. I understand completely that many experts, breeders, etc. Would agree that reptiles are the exception to the rule, but I have witnessed very different things as a behaviorist in my many plus years of studying humans and animal behaviour.
    Ketta, Tidgy's Dad and Cathie G like this.
  2. drew54

    drew54 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2018
    Messages:
    885
    Likes Received:
    836
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location (City and/or State):
    Indiana
    Reptiles remind me of teenagers. They are capable of learning and showing some human emotion but they rather be stubborn little sh- you understand.

    The more you interact with them the more they get used to it. That doesn't mean they have to like it. If they show signs of distress then limit their handling that day. Study up on bearded dragons. I think torts and beardies have some similar behaviors when it comes to handling.
    Ketta, Cathie G and TechnoCheese like this.
  3. drew54

    drew54 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2018
    Messages:
    885
    Likes Received:
    836
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location (City and/or State):
    Indiana
    Bees communicate with pheromones also like most living things. Communication doesn't have to be sounds or movements it can also be distinguished through different scents (Pheromones). Most mammals communicate with pheromones also. We do, dogs, cats, etc. Spiders creep me out so it's hard for me to study their behavior when I'm constantly paranoid it's going to crawl in mer or something. I would be interested in seeing some short clips of your tarantula behavior. I have studied a lot of things but spiders it's hard lol I know a lot about spiders in general and a little about behaviour but not their personalities or anything.
    Ketta and Cathie G like this.
  4. drew54

    drew54 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2018
    Messages:
    885
    Likes Received:
    836
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location (City and/or State):
    Indiana
    Fear and lust are emotional responses. Hunger is a physiological response that can trigger emotional responses. Emotions are learned responses and instinctual responses. All animals display emotion to some degree. And you don't have to be intelligent to feel or display emotions.
    Ketta likes this.
  5. drew54

    drew54 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2018
    Messages:
    885
    Likes Received:
    836
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location (City and/or State):
    Indiana
    I agree with you. I find it aggravating when a person stated that reptiles be turtles, tortoises, beardies, or whatever all have distinct personalities then argue they don't have emotional capabilities. I agree 100% that reptiles don't understand the concept of love or hate, but I do believe they can be taught some of these concepts though. Sea turtles are a great example, beardies, even crocodiles show and understand some complex emotional responses and the rules and laws in their hierarchical communities are just fascinating.

    In my time studying behavior, human and animal, I've seen a caiman show affection to their young. Most interestingly, I witnessed a caiman show affection to its owner.

    On the flip side reptile behaviors can also be very ambiguous at times. It's hard to decipher a language when you don't exactly know it.
    Ketta and Cathie G like this.
  6. TammyJ

    TammyJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,439
    Likes Received:
    1,815
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location (City and/or State):
    Jamaica
    It's good for you to interpret his behaviour as love and trust. It means that you will take really great care of him and love him too!
    BUT. Maybe he walks up to you and puts his "little paw" on your foot, and looks you straight in the eye to tell you to get the heck out of his space.:D
  7. Cathie G

    Cathie G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    2,536
    Likes Received:
    13,490
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location (City and/or State):
    Lancaster
    No it was more like I'm hungry and would rather go eat something good. It's still trust that I would obey him...lol
    dorothybaez, Ketta and TammyJ like this.
  8. Cathie G

    Cathie G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    2,536
    Likes Received:
    13,490
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location (City and/or State):
    Lancaster
    Obviously they've learned that you are trained enough to trust...lol .I like my animals spoiled enough to tell me what they want.when they want it. And if it's reasonable I will give it. However, they are little babies crawling around needing help.
    Ketta and TammyJ like this.
  9. TammyJ

    TammyJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,439
    Likes Received:
    1,815
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location (City and/or State):
    Jamaica
    Yeah, sounds like an old boy friend or two of mine....lol!
    Cathie G likes this.
  10. Cathie G

    Cathie G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    2,536
    Likes Received:
    13,490
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location (City and/or State):
    Lancaster
    Every critter has emotions. Humans are ruled by reason and animals by instincts. Sometimes emotions can rule over all of that and you may get to witness animals just having fun with each other. I've seen it many times.
    Ketta and drew54 like this.
  11. drew54

    drew54 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2018
    Messages:
    885
    Likes Received:
    836
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location (City and/or State):
    Indiana
    Technically we are all animals of some sort ruled by both just some more than others.

    I think it's about time that I show proof to everyone. Below I have posted rare photos of a tortoise named Filbert spending time with his friends. IMG_0836.jpg IMG_0837.jpg IMG_0866.jpg

    Below I have rare photos of a 6 year old turtle named Franklin playing with his friends.
    IMG_0838.jpg IMG_0839.jpg

    I hope this puts all the current debate to rest once and for all.
    Ketta, TammyJ and Cathie G like this.
  12. Cathie G

    Cathie G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    2,536
    Likes Received:
    13,490
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location (City and/or State):
    Lancaster
    amen
  13. Cathie G

    Cathie G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    2,536
    Likes Received:
    13,490
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location (City and/or State):
    Lancaster
    Whatever,so how are you getting some rest? My mom always told me that"if u want peace go to the cemetery"...I think I'd rather debate.
    drew54 likes this.
  14. drew54

    drew54 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2018
    Messages:
    885
    Likes Received:
    836
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location (City and/or State):
    Indiana
    No rest at any cemetery I've been to. The dead are always talking.
    dorothybaez, Ketta and Cathie G like this.
  15. Cathie G

    Cathie G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    2,536
    Likes Received:
    13,490
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location (City and/or State):
    Lancaster
    I I think if you see that kind of behavior initiated by the animal and keep doing it with them....the animal will understand that you heard them. Keep watching because they might initiate a new fun game too.
    Ketta likes this.
  16. Cathie G

    Cathie G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    2,536
    Likes Received:
    13,490
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location (City and/or State):
    Lancaster
  17. drew54

    drew54 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2018
    Messages:
    885
    Likes Received:
    836
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location (City and/or State):
    Indiana
    Reptiles are capable of seeking comfort and they do in various ways mostly through biological needs. Food, shelter, heat, etc.

    The instance of the hippo and the aldabra might be rare occurrence with tortoises but there have been many instances of this in a lot of reptiles. There was a story out many years ago about this guys bearded dragon befriended a mouse. The guy put the mouse in with the lizard thinking it was going to eat it and the lizard never did. Instead the mouse would stick beside the beardie or perched on its head. Their interactions were pretty interesting and the lizard never showed any signs of aggression towards the mouse in any way.

    To be honest this behavior reminds me of I believe is the trap door spider. The spider will employee a mouse to lure food to the to the spider and in return the mouse can eat instead of being eaten.

    The tortoise and lizard may have in fact made friends with the mammals as many seem to do with their owners or its simply a business relation. They both are very possible, but many would argue that is purely business. Simply because reptiles are territorial and not known to just socialize with other animals or even members of their species that doesn't result in aggression.

    You might have also seen the video of the sulcata flipping the other sulcata over on its feet. Although, we don't get to see what happened before hand we can only speculate that the tortoise was either actually helping the other tortoise or it was an act of aggression. We don't really know because we don't have all the details of what happened before and after. I bring this up because many people are quick to assume that it's compassion, but I'm not so quick to think so. Not saying that reptiles aren't capable of compassion, but there isn't any defining evidence of such behavior.

    I do believe that any species of animal can be taught a number of things from behaviors to emotions to some degree captive or wild. The problem is finding an effective teaching method tat the animal can learn to understand. Most behaviorists opt for conditioning through positive and negative reinforcement as seen in dogs, dolphins, hyenas, birds, etc.

    There was a guy who try to train a sulcata hatchling using conditioning methods to modify and teach behavior. Was he successful? For the most part he was. Behaviour is often more easily modified and taught than teaching emotion and feeling. Now, mind you the behavior he had taught the hatchling wss merely to hit a button to get a reward. If I can find that source again I'll post it on here.

    I know this didn't answer your questions with an absolute answer, but hopefully it gives you a better understanding. There is a lot of mixed views on the matter and I feel I have presented what I've learned objectively.

    I hope this helps.
    Ketta, tinytortoise and Cathie G like this.
  18. TammyJ

    TammyJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2016
    Messages:
    2,439
    Likes Received:
    1,815
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location (City and/or State):
    Jamaica
    Long as they are not Walking.
    Cathie G and drew54 like this.
  19. Cathie G

    Cathie G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    2,536
    Likes Received:
    13,490
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location (City and/or State):
    Lancaster
    Well I did see some pretty strange people out walking tonight...but I'd rather do a brain storm on tortoise forum every day of the week.
    Ketta and TammyJ like this.
  20. Cathie G

    Cathie G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    2,536
    Likes Received:
    13,490
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location (City and/or State):
    Lancaster
    It's no wonder a tortoise is born a sociopath. Their mom burys them in the ground and takes off...no wonder they love almost everyone but another tortoise...
    dorothybaez and drew54 like this.
Similar Threads: tortoise hates
Forum Title Date
Advanced Tortoise Topics Female tortoises having a flexible plastron at adulthood Sep 16, 2019
Advanced Tortoise Topics Relocating tortoise in house. Sep 15, 2019
Advanced Tortoise Topics Leopard tortoise tried to breed with Sulcata tortoise Sep 4, 2019
Advanced Tortoise Topics Mycoplasma transmission from rodent to tortoise Aug 30, 2019
Advanced Tortoise Topics Tortoise shell Aug 19, 2019

Share This Page