MVB bad?

[slowpoke]

Hey guys/gals ... I emailed a guy today from craigslist , who said he had a pet store closing and had a lot of stuff for sale , so I asked him if he had any MVB left and how much he wanted for them (can never have enough supplies) he emailed me back , "nope never carried them they are DANGEROUS " so I emailed him back and asked him how they were "dangerous" so he sent me this link .....
http://www.stanford.edu/~bcalhoun/AStock.htm
I would love to have your take on this for I have never heard of this before , I've heard of CFL's making torts blind but nothing with MVB ...

 

[wellington]

Unless I am reading something wrong. That is from the 1920's, and has to do with humans. So old and outdated, that I am sure a lot of things were bad back then, that we use today that is now safe. Mercury in it's raw form is not safe. The MVB now days are. But don't stare into them. I am sure they could hurt your eyes. Any other thoughts on this.

 

[jaizei]

There have been problems with just about every type of lamp used to provide UVB for reptiles. Design flaws, manufacturing errors, no instructions, user error, etc. Unfortunately, there are some that refuse to look past the ones that most recently had problems (CFL). Educate yourself and make a decision. Don't rely solely on what what someone else says.

I've used all the different types of lamps in the past with no problems. But none of them were ever my sole means of UVB and I've always made sure to include lots of exposure to natural sunlight.

 

[slowpoke]

wellington : yea I got a good laugh when I was reading this link he sent me , thinking the same thing on how can a 1920's study even compare to today's technology

jaizei : I agree nothing is as good as good old sun light

 

[ascott]

Mercury is still mercury....why do you suppose you are instructed to not throw mercury bulbs into your regular trash collection....you are to dispose of them at hazardous waste sites...along with batteries.....I know this is an article that is dated...however mercury has not suddenly been made safe...it can wreak havoc today just as it did in the earlier years....

I personally don't use to MVBs because they seem to intense of a light to be coupled with a heat source in turn forcing the reptile to insure all if they want to remain warm....I usually promote only a long tube uvb with a separate heat source so the reptile has a choice...and if the enclosure is large enough I would add a MVB for some of the desert species to have as an option in addition to the long tube uvb and heat source...but I would only consider this if use of the MVB was for short periods of time each day...for example the MVB being used at what would be the height of a natural day.....now....understand this is simply what I would do in regards to an MVB...I have no reason to use them though...I would never bake the RFs and the CDTs are out all year with the exceptions of brumating months....the turtles here even have a heat source and a separate long tube uvb.......I am not by any means telling anyone what they do by using a MVB is wrong but rather I find that they have alot of downfalls just as many other cure alls do....

 

[Tom]

I personally don't use to MVBs because they seem to intense of a light to be coupled with a heat source in turn forcing the reptile to insure all if they want to remain warm....I usually promote only a long tube uvb with a separate heat source so the reptile has a choice...and if the enclosure is large enough I would add a MVB for some of the desert species to have as an option in addition to the long tube uvb and heat source...but I would only consider this if use of the MVB was for short periods of time each day...for example the MVB being used at what would be the height of a natural day.....now....understand this is simply what I would do in regards to an MVB...I have no reason to use them though...I would never bake the RFs and the CDTs are out all year with the exceptions of brumating months....the turtles here even have a heat source and a separate long tube uvb.......I am not by any means telling anyone what they do by using a MVB is wrong but rather I find that they have alot of downfalls just as many other cure alls do....

Just for the sake of discussion... I find this an interesting point of view. I have always promoted MVBs as the best thing for tortoises next to natural sunshine. Their intensity and warmth coupled with their UV output is the reason you don't like them, but its precisely the reason I DO like them. Nothing is more "intense" than the actual sun. If outdoors, or in the wild, if a tortoise wants to warm up, it will expose itself to this "intensity". When its warm enough, it goes to the shade or down its burrow for some species. How is this different in an indoor enclosure? There is intense light and warmth directly under the bulb, simulating the sun, and they can move out of it and into the shade at will, just like they can with the sun outside. I can see how it would be bad if every square inch of floor space was directly under and array of MVBs, but used normally, with one MVB on one end of the enclosure, the tortoise is free to choose its level of intense light, heat and UV, just as it would outside. MVBs do not produce more UV than the sun do they?

I mean no disrespect, just trying to understand your POV.

 

[ascott]

Ah Tom..no need for the disrespect concern...at this point in our relationship not necessary as I don't take you or your opinions or views as a point of disrespect...okay

I hope I use the right words here to relay my point....here go.

I think where I differ a little here is that in a totally artificial setting it seems to be normal practice to leave the MVBs on for anywhere of 10-14 hours (12 being the popular target) now I do not know of many Tortoise or turtle species that have that type of constant exposure...kinda like a slow bake....yes, we provide half log hides (that are relatively short considering how uv rays can travel as far as 4 feet into shade)
So they never truly get out of the uv rays (adults can handle this but too many hatchlings are subjected to this intensity and I feel this plays a large roll in alot of the eye issues--air biting...not being able to lock in on food and such. As well as contributes to rapid dehydration in both young and juveniles....and I believe this has to do with the desire for the tortoise to keep warm and if the only or prime source for warmth is a MVB then they are forced also to the intense brightness .....am I explaining well enough to express my view...not that anyone is required to agree but just to understand????

Tom, I like a separate uvb along with heat source because it gives options and the long tube uvbs are not so intense....I think the intensity is what worries me....also remember though that I have a species of tortoise (CDT) that thrive on intense sun and then burrow deep into the earth to reach a steady temp ....they move closer and further from their burrow entrance to get warmer while still remaining out of the intense uv rays....in an indoor enclosure the short or shallow length of common hides don't allow this...so again not the same ability to get out of the intense brightness...I think I have used all examples that come to mind....

 

[Tom]

Maybe the difference in opinion is due to enclosure design. Mine have hiding spots and humid hides where they can get completely out of the light if they want. And in the wild there is no option to get out of the intense UV rays if they want the warming rays of the sun. I shoot for 12 hours because that's about how long the object I'm trying to simulate stays up. I think the lack of intensity is also why the tubes fall short as a sole source of UV for people who don't share OUR awesome tortoise climate. For you and me, I think all of this is moot, since our tortoises get so much natural sunshine all year long. I don't think indoor UV really matters for either of us.

Glad our relationship has reached such a pinnacle of mutual respect. Makes it fun and interesting to talk with you.

 

[EKLC]

With my setups I have a very hard time creating temperature gradients with an MVB. The MVB wants to bring everything to 91. I think it depends on the enclosure. If I had an open tortoise table, an MVB would be the best option. But definitely not for a closed tank less than 200 gallons

 

[ascott]

Tom, I will agree that my part of my opinion absolutely does stem from enclosure types, styles and size...that would be a very fair statement and observation on your part.

Also yes, I find it so weird when I have tortoise in the house instead of outside the house in their yards.....lol....although it is necessary to house the RFs indoors at present due to the cool temps and the boys are still finishing up their beauty rest so it is important for them to be inside at present....but yes, they will all get tossed back out to their yards here soon (I hope the weather warms up soon for more than one day lol) and we do have loads of sun for most of the year for sure....so yes, you are again correct.

I will say this though...if one has a large enough enclosure..and I mean as well as large and had a lush thickly planted end (I mean thick canopy style plants not a couple) and then about middle point had a heating element (no bright light style) which offered a semi warm zone along side the cool lush plant zone and then used an MVB totally at the end opposite of the lush planted area then to me...again, to me..that would be a bit better...if the enclosure was filled deep with soil so that the tortoise could burrow down or create a surface pallet as they would in the wild or if the thick thick planted area was cool then they could retreat there....now this to me would not apply to some of the forrest dwelling species but absolutely for the others....and just so folks know as well...I do not think a bulb is a cure all...I believe each type of bulb has a use and a good place of application...and since each enclosure is different as well as a variety of species I believe there are times that one bulb type and style may be better suited than another...

---

EKLC ; i would say that you know what space you are working with...the species you host and their opportunity for real sunshine exposure and diet and age of your tortoise......and taking that all into consideration you should set your enclosure up based on all of those factors...using the equipment that best suites environment replication for your tortoise....

 

[slowpoke]

TOM & ASCOTT: thanks for the good reading on all your post ... But , i have to side with Tom on using a MVB , but like you said Ascott "you know what space you are working with", i use the MVB on one side with a deep hide on that side but they also have the option to go to a deeper hide on the cool side that has the uvb tube and the entrance is covered by a plant it stays 72 in that spot , they go there mostly at night to sleep , and hang out in the day on the center part of the habitat where it's in the 80's ... (where my cam is shooting down at) the other end where they go in the mornings is 92 and right under the lamp its 100 ... but what I'm getting to is, i live in Colorado so this time of the year they don't get much outside time , and I've tried a few things and the MVB with the tube uvb works great for the space , and I'm not conferrable yet getting my torts to hibernate yet.... and thanks again guys for all your great info you pass on to every one ...

 

[Tom]

I agree that MVBs are not suitable for many types of closed chambers. Much too hot. I have a 4x8x2' for my leopards and an MVB was much too hot in there. I had to go to a 75 or 80 watt flood bulb. I think if my enclosure was 4x8x4' it might work, but I realize that most people don't have closed chambers that big. I also use a regular florescent to brighten up the whole enclosure. Since mine get sun all year, I use no artificial UV in that enclosure.