Money + Pets

[TylerStewart]

I have poured alot of emotion into my three, let ALONE cash, with two of them being 200$ alone for their purchase price. You can bet your boots if ANYTHING happened to me, and it was impossible for me to keep them that there would be an adoption fee.

So basically, you'd be selling them, right? Or would this be called "adoption" since you were using Craigslist?

My point was, if someone wanted to find a suitable home for their tortoise, and was not trying to get money out of it, why screw with Craigslist at all? There's plenty of people on this forum more than willing to give them a good home, or people you know and can check with (unless you have absolutely no social or family life). If you're adding a fee in order to "recover" your cost, you're "re-selling" it.

 

[Meg90]

There's plenty of people on this forum more than willing to give them a good home.

You are not talking general public Tyler, like the rest of us are. Would I give one of my Greeks to Robyn? Yeah. Would I give one to JoeBlow who I know NOTHING about? NO.

There is a difference here.

Would you give away a tortoise? That's what I wanna know. Where are your free animals?

 

[TylerStewart]

You are not talking general public Tyler, like the rest of us are. Would I give one of my Greeks to Robyn? Yeah. Would I give one to JoeBlow who I know NOTHING about? NO.

There is a difference here.

Would you give away a tortoise? That's what I wanna know. Where are your free animals?

There's nothing wrong with selling them, Meg, just quit calling it an adoption. If you are unable to keep them, then adopt them out at no cost. If you want to make a buck in the process, then sell them.

No I wouldn't give away a tortoise. If I had a tortoise that I wasn't able to keep, I'd sell it, but that's just the capitalist in me. There's nothing wrong with that. Heaven forbid someone make some money on an animal.

 

[GBtortoises]

I don't agree with the statement that "free animals are garbage animals" either. I've got a few here that I've been given that were (and still are) strong, healthy, very normal animals that I have no intention of ever parting with. That's not to say that some animals that people are trying to unload are always in good health or have normal growth. In some cases that is why the people are trying to unload them! But most people that I have run across are giving an animal away because their circumstances no longer allows them to keep that animal. Whether it be because of living conditions, financial or other reasons. In alot of cases it's been a pet purchased for child who of course loses interest and the parent ended up taking care of the animal and no longer wants to have to. An irresponsible act to begin with maybe, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the animal was not properly cared for.

 

[Meg90]

I have three animals in my keeping alone that were children's pets. All three have problems. Parents know better. Its not a real shocker that your 6 year old doesn't want to clean the hamster cage, or the litter box. They KNOW that they will be doing most of the caregiving. Its not an excuse to dump an animal, or to refuse to take care of it, because its your KID'S pet.

Go on Craigslist--or petfinder, and tell me how properly cared for reptiles you see. For every properly rehomed animal, there are several put up just to dump them off because no one wants to deal with them anymore. Half of the owners do not care what will happen to them, because they were a problem to begin with.

 

[chadk]

Free animals are treated like garbage Chad. You don't change my mind on that. They are throwaways. I've seen it SO MANY TIMES. People don't CARE if it gets sick, or stops eating or dies, because they didn't invest anything into it. You are animal minded, as I am. But most people are NOT. What about the mother that just forced her son to kill his hamster with a hammer because his grades slipped, and he needed to be punished? Obviously that animal meant nothing to her.

If you had to rehome them, you'd post them all as FREE then, since that's how you got them?

Don't give me that "right person" spheel and then say you still believe in no rehoming fees. There's a line, and there are always exceptions. I've even cut PRICES when I am selling geckos, if the person can prove to me that they are a proper, loving home, and deserve the break.

But do you think I would EVER make a posting on CL and say "Two FREE CB tortoises! First come, first serve!"

No. And neither would you. You can't have it both ways.

So in some cases, animals are treated as garbage - whether they got them for free, or paid a bundle. And in some cases, animals are treated great, regardless of whether or not they were free or cost a bundle.

I'm not suggesting that it would be fine to put your tort in a box on the corner with a 'free' sign. Or list it like that on CL. But "free to good home" is a reasonable thing to do. You ask questions, ask for pics of the home, maybe even visit the new home, and screen how you see fit.

I've know situations where people paid good money for an animal, then felt they hat a 'right' to abuse it since they paid money and it is now their 'property'. Fee or Free does not a 'garbage pet' make...

 

[fifthdawn]

Usually you can tell if someone is selling their animal or rehoming it. Rehoming fees should never be anywhere close to the original price of the animal. It should be low enough where you're not trying to profit, but high enough so that you feel comited to the animal and not just throwing change away to experiment around with new pets.

Yes, its true that people treat animals certain ways regardless of whether or not its free, but every event is about likelihood. By adding a small reasonable rehoming fee, you decrease the chances of it going to just anybody who wants free things, its a preventative measure.

An alternative to rehome fee is if you can see proof of their animal experience and maybe know a little about the buyer, but this isn't always the case and can't always be the case, which I think rehoming fee can be justified.

I've adopted animals in the past but I never mind paying for it. The price is always only about 15-20% of its market value. Even so, part of that 15-20% is gas money since they delivered it to my home which I feel is reasonable.

 

[alfiethetortoise]

I aquired my rabbit through a rehoming service offered by my local petshop. The rabbit was free. However, i paid for a large indoor cage and Ruby is very well cared for and loved here with us. I guess that the same could easily happen with a tortoise or that theoretically, someone could have picked her up, and put her in a pie.

Circumstances DO change, all the time, often through no fault of the owner. Our rabbit is Ava's really, but she is not yet two, so obviously its me who does all the work, but that doesnt mean she cant put food into the dish, water in the bottle, sawdust in the cage etc.

If i had to sell Aflie, i would. Perhaps i would give her away if my circumstances were different, but i would certainly give a much reduced price to someone i knew would care for her properly...

 

[GBtortoises]

I can definitely say that over the years I've gotten some of worst cared for animals from big time reptile dealers who charge premium prices for the animals that are dehydrated, often filthy and usually crawling with parasites.
On the other hand I have 2.1 Russian tortoises that a lady gave to me, along with all of their equipment, about 5 years ago. When I got to her home I was impressed with how well she had them set up. They were, big, healthy, heavy and extremely active! Even though they were advertised as "free to someone who knew how to care for them", I offered to pay for them and she declined. She told me that the only reason that she was getting rid of them was because her daughter was going off to college and being a single mom she could not afford, nor did she have the time because of work, to care for the tortoises and the ferrets that she was giving away also. I still have 1.1 of them and "donated" one of the males to a local school for a sixth grade class to have. The teacher is into animals and along with the tortoise they also have Bearded Dragons (who are constantly producing babies), a couple of aquatic turtles, frogs & giant millipedes.
So again, I don't think that all "free animals are garbage". Sometimes it's just people's circumstances that force them to get rid of a pet and some people would rather give it away to someone who will care for it the way that they did or better. Money isn't always the driving force.

And yes Meg you're right, parents know better, or at least they should. But that's not always the case. Some parents don't give a thought beyond buying the animal in order to please the child. I'm not saying that it's right or responsible, but it's a fact of life that can't be changed. We're not all the same, we don't all think the same and we don't all have the same set of responsibilities, judgement or values. There are also plenty of parents that are fully aware from the start of who may ultimately end up taking care of the animal in the long run and do.

There are lots of animals listed on Craigslist and other websites that people are getting rid of. I don't dispute that. But I'm not sure by simply seeing an ad for a free animal how you can determine that it's "garbage". Not all free animal ads exist because "no one wants to deal with them anymore". Many are because of changes in someone's situation that doesn't allow for them to have the animals anymore. Some people advertise them for sale, some people advertise them for free. I don't see how that distinguishes a difference in the quality of the animal whatsoever.

 

[Kymiie]

MEG 90:
Dont get so agressive towards me, no I wouldnt just give crush to anyone, I would make sure that everything is suitable. When we sell puppies we make sure the new owners have a suitable home and we check on them for a year!

If I was to find out the living enviroment was suitable..yes I would let him go for free. This wasnt a thread designed at any1, it was one I thought of and ask for opinions and its just getting out of hand!!

xx

 

[fifthdawn]

I think you guys misinterpreted what Meg meant by "garbage" animals. I don't think she was implying that if its free, its of low quality.

I think what she meant was the person that buys it is likely to view the animal as garbage. If the animal gets sick, why take it to the vet? I got the pet for free anyways.

 

[TylerStewart]

MEG 90:
Dont get so agressive towards me

Meg gets aggressive quickly. I think there's not enough red meat in her diet.

 

[BethyB1022]

I would disagree with the free animals are treated like garbage statement. It seems too overarching. I've always cared for my animals that I have gotten for free, because I am an animal lover and and that's what I'll do, and I have certainly never thought of a free animal as a throwaway pet. Unfortunately, not everyone cares for their pets to the best of their ability and I think that is the way regardless of whether or not they paid for it. It's sad but the way things are sometimes.

As far as adoption fees go I have been told that it is better to charge one in terms of small animals. For example, when one of my bunnies had babies I was advised to charge an adoption fee because I didn't want them to be used as feeders for snakes, etc... Same with when I had a litter of baby rats. Luckily I was able to place the babies with people we knew so I felt confident that they were going to good homes. But if I had resorted to placing an ad I would have asked for a fee, just to deter people who may have wanted to feed them to their pets. That is because I wanted the bunnies to be pets, because that was my vision for them.

In my opinion as long as a fee is reasonable I don't see a problem with it.

 

[DoctorCosmonaut]

When they want $200 dollars to adopt a redfoot that they cant take care of... Yes its wrong for them to ask that!

 

[egyptiandan]

I'm getting in on this late but I have a feeling when people use the word "adopt" they are pulling at heart strings to get their animal sold. The word adopt always seems to melt people, no matter how much the person is charging. I'm sure most of the people that use that are trying to sell their animal faster.

Danny

 

[GBtortoises]

Yep! Absolutely agreed, "Adopt" and "Re-home" have become feel good words for "I want to sell".

The exception to that may be when you're talking about a legitimate rehabilitator or adoption organization whose motive is to place animals into qualified homes. They truly are adopting the animal out, even if there is a fee. They take in unwanted animals, ensure that they are in good health and then attempt to find them homes. They aren't in it for profit but must be able to cover some of their costs to continue on with other animals in the future.

 

[chadk]

When they want $200 dollars to adopt a redfoot that they cant take care of... Yes its wrong for them to ask that!

Why? Isn't it a free market thing? If nobody is willing to pay that, then he'll lower the price. If someone is willing to pay that, then what is the issue? Don't understand why this is a problem.

 

[fifthdawn]

Yep! Absolutely agreed, "Adopt" and "Re-home" have become feel good words for "I want to sell".

The exception to that may be when you're talking about a legitimate rehabilitator or adoption organization whose motive is to place animals into qualified homes. They truly are adopting the animal out, even if there is a fee. They take in unwanted animals, ensure that they are in good health and then attempt to find them homes. They aren't in it for profit but must be able to cover some of their costs to continue on with other animals in the future.

Hows it different than someone "rehoming" their pet they can no longer care for, and charging a fee not for profit, just to cover cost of vet care? The only difference between an organization and a single person who can't care for the pet is a sign or name outside their building.

I don't think everyone thats on craigslist who wants to rehome their pet is as heartless as we think. Like any adoption agency, CLers also have an unwanted pet, want them to have good health, hence the vet fee for rehome, and I would image also wanting them to go to a good home.

 

[GBtortoises]

Yep! Absolutely agreed, "Adopt" and "Re-home" have become feel good words for "I want to sell".

The exception to that may be when you're talking about a legitimate rehabilitator or adoption organization whose motive is to place animals into qualified homes. They truly are adopting the animal out, even if there is a fee. They take in unwanted animals, ensure that they are in good health and then attempt to find them homes. They aren't in it for profit but must be able to cover some of their costs to continue on with other animals in the future.

Hows it different than someone "rehoming" their pet they can no longer care for, and charging a fee not for profit, just to cover cost of vet care? The only difference between an organization and a single person who can't care for the pet is a sign or name outside their building.

I don't think everyone thats on craigslist who wants to rehome their pet is as heartless as we think. Like any adoption agency, CLers also have an unwanted pet, want them to have good health, hence the vet fee for rehome, and I would image also wanting them to go to a good home.

What I meant by the "exception" (which didn't come out that way) was that rehabilitators and adoption organizations charge a fee, in part to cover the cost of their expenses for care, medication etc... An individual that is using the terms "adoption" and "re-homing" is as Danny stated and I believe also, trying to "soften" the fact that they're asking an outright sale price for the animal. I guess if you want to look at it in the purest sense the individual and the adoption organization are both selling the animal, but I believe with different motives in mind. The individual is looking to get his money back to stick in his pocket and be rid of the burden of caring for the animal. The adoption organization is looking to also cover their costs for care but with a different motive in mind. They aren't in it for profit, but for funds to sustain and continue their work with animals.


I do not disagree with either motive. In fact I completely agree with both and think that both are fully justified in charging what they feel that they're service or animal is worth.

I also agree that not all CLer's and those on other sites doing the same is heartless. Not by any stretch of the imagination. If you check out my story about the Russian tortoises that is farther up this thread you'll see that I completely agree. I found someone who simply could not financially care for her tortoises but was at the time doing a great job with them. She gave them to me for free, even though I offered to pay for them. She simply wanted to know that they were going to be cared for properly. Yeah, there's alot of slimeballs getting freebies or cheapies and trying to re-sell them to make a few more bucks. But in general I think most are probably decent people that just can't care for the animals any longer for any number of reasons.

I think the original premise of this thread was that people who don't uphold their commitment to the animals shouldn't be allowed to sell them, but should be giving them away to someone who can care for them. As I stated initially, I think they have every right to sell, trade or give their animals away as they see fit since they are the rightful owners.

 

[Meg90]

Kymiie--You posted the link to this thread in a for-sale post, and then told the person you were not willing to pay for her animals. Why is it acceptable to expect her to do so, when you wouldn't do it yourself? I'm just curious as to the logic here, since she is a new member and does not know anyone on this site yet. You said you would want to get to know the person--how willing do you think you'd be if you were charging a modest rehoming fee for Crush, and the first email someone sent was saying they'd only take him if he was free? Would you really want to talk more?

Alfiethetortoise said she paid £200 for Alfie, and this woman was only charging £300 for two CB Russians and their enclosures.

IMO that for sale posting is what sparked this entire thread, and the resounding mess.