MBD-Back Legs stopped working

[lismar79]

Harley stopped using his legs tonight! Or I should say they barely work. Doesn’t seem to hold weight but he slowly moves them in & out. I have an emergency apt tomorrow with the vet but in the meantime, im sick with worry.

GENERAL- I have Harley for 2 months, I know he had MBD & I have changed his diet to accommodate this with the store greens, Mazuri, & vitamins. He also gets a spray calcium (three drops) every other day. He has gained 2 lbs & has grown a lil under a half inch since I have had him.

QUESTION- I have read through many old forum post about this and a lot of answers come back to his mbd-BUT why now? The previous owner only gave him romaine & a little calcium every other day & never had this problem with him. Also, do you think this will periodically happen?
kidney stones???

ANY advice or opinions would be appreciated! – I am kinda blundering through this. I never intended to have a Sulcata, just could not say no to him once I seen how bad off he was!

Additional info- He is 10, or so I was told. shell is 11 inch long, 10 lbs
He has a 7’ x 4’ indoor enclosure with power sun & che. Temps for basking are reaching 120 in one spot & 115 in the other. He will get an outside area once winter is over
He barely drinks….I never see him anyway. I do soak him 2 times a week but now I see that I should increase. Will do every day until told otherwise.
He eats- collards, turnip greens, dandelion greens, romaine, Bok Choy, Kale – all alternated in different mixes off & on every other purchase. He gets about 15 soaked Mazuri pellets a day – This seems like a like to me, but he just started getting firm poo & growth when I added it.
Vitamins – reptile vitamin (tort approved) & Calcium liquid form. I put three drops in his Mazuri water every other day…

 

[wellington]

So sorry to hear this. Sorry too I can't add any help. Just wanted to say fingers crossed for an easy fix and please keep us informed.

 

[Yvonne G]

Just remember, all the calcium in the world won't work inside the tortoise unless he also gets the UVB from either the sun or a good UVB light to make vitamin d3. They work together (calcium and vit.d3) Without the UVB the calcium just gets excreted in the poop and urine.

 

[lismar79]

UVB from either the sun or a good UVB light to make vitamin d3. They work together (calcium and vit.d3) Without the UVB the calcium just gets excreted in the poop and urine.

I have a power sun mercury vapor UVB lamp 260 watt. I thought that that would suffice? I was giving him a calcium and D three supplement together but thought maybe that would be overkill? I'm still trying to figure out what the best care regimen is for him and his condition.

 

[wellington]

The power sun is a good light. It's a bigger wattage then I would use, but anyway, is it an appropriate distance from the tort, without being too far from him? The farther way then the recommended distance the less UVB. If you still have the box, it should say the recommended distance. Just a thought.

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Oh and another thought. At his age, if you don't live where it is freezing, and you still get some good sun, you could put him in a box, large enough to give some shade space. Put black dirt as a substrate and set him in the sun for a while. The dirt will help to attract the sun, the sides of the tub will help too block the wind and if you get a temp gun, you would be able too do test runs so you know the temp is warm enough. At his age, even in the high fifties, low sixties, in the sun it's usually warmer. The sun will help him with MBD, D3, calcium and is much better then any bulb. Heck, even if you had to add artificial heat to keep him warm, while sitting in the sun, it would be worth it. Just always be sure there is a cooler place for him too go to.

 

[lismar79]

The power sun is a good light. It's a bigger wattage then I would use, but anyway, is it an appropriate distance from the tort, without being too far from him? The farther way then the recommended distance the less UVB. If you still have the box, it should say the recommended distance. Just a thought.

Thanks for responding, its 15 inches from the light to the top of harley. Think that's ok? Box did not say....

Oh and another thought. At his age, if you don't live where it is freezing, and you still get some good sun, you could put him in a box, large enough to give some shade space.

We live in ohio. Its neg 12 today. He eventually will have an out side home with heated shed but I got him in oct and didn't get a chance to do everything I needed to.

 

[wellington]

Oh, your getting the crappy weather we are finally pulling out of. I'm in Chicago. Well, keep it in mind as soon as the temps get up around the mid too upper 50's, if you can get a tote box prepared and the temp gun, you can test all kinds of temps too see how cold it can be outside, yet the tote box still being warm enough. I am only talking like a big tote box, not the much larger outside enclosure you will be building.

 

[Jacqui]

How many hours a day is he getting the UVB light?

 

[lismar79]

How many hours a day is he getting the UVB light?

It comes on at 7am and goes off at 10 pm. He has a che at night.

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if you can get a tote box prepared and the temp gun, you can test all kinds of temps too see how cold it can be outside, yet the tote box still being warm enough. I am only talking like a big tote box, not the much larger outside enclosure you will be building.

Yep, can't wait for 50 degrees after this week.

 

[lismar79]

So I just got back from the vet- Anyone in northern Ohio : Dr Krupka was awesome!- Harley got an X-ray & everything looked good. No stones & his concaved shell is NOT sitting on his spine. Vet figures that because of his past neglect, before I got him, that His legs are super weak & are going to give out & act up now and again. He was even moving them better this morning. More exercise in his future!

He even cut a small section of shell out so his tail fits better & poo can come out easier!

He said as far as care goes, I am doing everything I can & that was a big load off my mind!

 

[mikeh]

I would add T5HO zoomed 10% or Arcadia 12% UVB tube. Most MVBs are known to fail prematurely rendering them useless for UVB in as little as one month.

 

[Watsonpartyof4]

So I just got back from the vet- Anyone in northern Ohio : Dr Krupka was awesome!- Harley got an X-ray & everything looked good. No stones & his concaved shell is NOT sitting on his spine. Vet figures that because of his past neglect, before I got him, that His legs are super weak & are going to give out & act up now and again. He was even moving them better this morning. More exercise in his future!

He even cut a small section of shell out so his tail fits better & poo can come out easier!

He said as far as care goes, I am doing everything I can & that was a big load off my mind!

Love Dr Krupka! I used to work for him! Glad to hear Harley is doing ok!

 

[Tom]

He eats- collards, turnip greens, dandelion greens, romaine, Bok Choy, Kale – all alternated in different mixes off & on every other purchase. He gets about 15 soaked Mazuri pellets a day – This seems like a like to me, but he just started getting firm poo & growth when I added it.
Vitamins – reptile vitamin (tort approved) & Calcium liquid form. I put three drops in his Mazuri water every other day…

This diet is at least a contributing factor.

This tortoise has a very compromised skeletal system. Grocery store foods and Mazuri are NOT what this tortoise needs.

Try this: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-76744.html

 

[Jacqui]

Glad it just seems to be a temporary thing. About a year ago, I got Dude, who is also an MBD tortoise. I set up his enclosure to helppromote his using his muscles and all of them. He does water therapy (copied after what they do for horse with leg problems), has hanging food to reach for, a series of sticks to climb over and even a small sand pit to walk through among other things. I am sorry I have no pictures to show this and right now everything is under a layer of snow and ice, but it might give you a few ideas to work with. I don't know how much it helps the tortoise and I have been trying to get a few more subjects in here to test this with, but no luck so far. Like I said, might give you some thoughts to work with.

 

[lismar79]

He eats- collards, turnip greens, dandelion greens, romaine, Bok Choy, Kale – all alternated in different mixes off & on every other purchase.

This diet is at least a contributing factor.

This tortoise has a very compromised skeletal system. Grocery store foods and Mazuri are NOT what this tortoise needs.

Try this: http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-76744.html

Yes, I know it is not ideal. He was never given hay in his past ten years and won't touch it now. I have tried tricking it into him but he snubs my attempts. I live in ohio so I have limitted availability for "weeds" I am growing my own but have not produced enough. Once the weather heats up he will go out side. I got harley in oct so the prep work was not done. The vet recoomended a few additions to his diet but he had no strong objections.
Store purchased and Mazuri were the best things I came up with until I can grow more and he can get outside.

Tom, I appreciate any additional info or tricks for hay you can suggest based off these factors.

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Glad it just seems to be a temporary thing. About a year ago, I got Dude, who is also an MBD tortoise. I set up his enclosure to helppromote his using his muscles and all of them. He does water therapy (copied after what they do for horse with leg problems), has hanging food to reach for, a series of sticks to climb over and even a small sand pit to walk through among other things. I am sorry I have no pictures to show this and right now everything is under a layer of snow and ice, but it might give you a few ideas to work with. I don't know how much it helps the tortoise and I have been trying to get a few more subjects in here to test this with, but no luck so far. Like I said, might give you some thoughts to work with.

Thanks for the ideas! I am really looking forward to building his outdoor enclosure.

 

[Jacqui]

For me, it's the outdoor enclosure making I enjoy the most!

 

[lismar79]

I got a lot of room and a good sized shed already so its going to be fantastic!

Oh, I should note, he always has fresh hay available.

 

[Jacqui]

What kind of hay have you tried? Mine prefer orchard hay over the other types. Where did you buy it? Often those small bags sold in pet stores for rabbits have way too much stem per leaf ratio and seem old, dusty and I imagine tasteless. So might be the type of hay causing troubles.

How have you tried to feed it? Did you wet it? Start out with the hay cut really really small and either as a topping on the foods he does like or perhaps mixed in with the Mazuri and gradually make it more and more hay as he gets use to the taste of hay?

 

[lismar79]

Orchard and timothy. My family has horses so hay is easy for me to get. I have mixed it with pumpkin, mazuri, and normal food. Have tried wet and dry. He doesn't like oat grass either. I cut it in small pc but when I did it was not mixed with anything..... maybe I will give that a try!

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I'm reading up on hay pellets.... any info or advice? Its one option I have not tried....

 

[Dizisdalife]

Orchard and timothy. My family has horses so hay is easy for me to get. I have mixed it with pumpkin, mazuri, and normal food. Have tried wet and dry. He doesn't like oat grass either. I cut it in small pc but when I did it was not mixed with anything..... maybe I will give that a try!

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I'm reading up on hay pellets.... any info or advice? Its one option I have not tried....

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My sulcata will not eat hay by itself. If I cut it up and mix it with his other foods then he eats it. Even mixing hay and Mazuri (he likes Mazuri) he will take a few bites and walk off. I have so much green this time of year I don't bother with hay.

When my tortoise was smaller I fed him hay pellets. The same as we feed the older horses that have more trouble chewing. The local feed store sells them from this company: http://www.mountainsunrise.com/pellets.html. The thing that most interested me was that it is 100% hay. Nothing added to it like you would find for rabbit feed or other herbivores.
I have fed, well, all types except alfalfa. I would soak it until it really expanded, longer than I would for a horse. Then squeeze out the excess water and add it to Mazuri that had also been soaked. The pellets can really hold a lot of water even after they have been squeezed a few times. I probably started by adding about 10% hay to the Mazuri and over a couple of months worked up to about 50% grass hay. This might help you work more grass into the diet and rely less on the produce.