Maximum temp for leopard hatchlings

[DesertGrandma]

Summer is here and it is hot outside. I am taking my leo hatchlings outside every morning to their outside enclosure. My question is: at what temperature (ground/air) should I bring them back inside, or what is the hottest temp they can tolerate as hatchlings without problems? They have shade and water. Thanks in advance for your advice.

 

[Neal]

Joy,

I can't recommend any specific temperatures for you. But here is what I do: Keep them outside until 10:30 am (usually by then we are 100+), then bring them back out at 4pm. As long as they have lots of shade and places to hide, things should be OK. This weekend I did a test run on my new pens and kept the hatchlings outside the entire day. We didn't get too much above 105 here in Mesa, but the babies really did good and seemed to like it. Now that it's 110+ I would be a little extra cautious.

 

[onarock]

You got to be kidding me with those temps. Glad you responded Neal.
Joy, I know that one of those little guys Never even saw 88 degrees untill it went to your house.

 

[Neal]

There's no kidding around here Paulo. They did have access to shade area and hides that stayed in the low 90's, but I was surprised that they would rather be walking around in the direct sunlight in those types of temperatures.

 

[onarock]

Very surprised. I have often wondered about the effect of indoor basking lamps and how they effect a tortoises outdoor behavior.
Joy, I would follow Neal's lead when it comes to keeping leopards outdoors in Az.

There's no kidding around here Paulo. They did have access to shade area and hides that stayed in the low 90's, but I was surprised that they would rather be walking around in the direct sunlight in those types of temperatures.

 

[Neal]

They definatley seem to enjoy the outdoor heat rather than the indoor heat. I've got a big thread coming up that relates to this. I'll try to get it up tonight.

 

[Jacob]

I Leave My Little Sully Outside for 8 Hours Daily, It Only Gets Around 80 and 90's so Far!
I Have Plenty Of Water and Shade In Every Corner Of His Pen

 

[Yvonne G]

Different kind of tortoise, but I thought I'd add my two cents.

I have 5 Texas hatchlings (about 8mo. old) in a Christmas tree storage bin. The bin is up on a shelf on the north side of the house. The angle of the sun is such that in the a.m. until about 11 it shines into the bin (I've got a piece of plywood over a quarter of it), but after that time the house offers shade. The last two days it has been 105 and 107. I leave the babies out 24/7, but I hose down their substrate every morning when I feed them.

They are MUCH MORE ACTIVE outside, and look much hungrier outside than they did in the house under the Zoo Med MVD. I see them walking around the bin. And there is no left-over food like there used to be.

My two leopard tortoise hatchlings (I think they're from August last year) are also outside 24/7. Their habitat is a wood frame set on the ground with a lattice cover.

I think that if you keep your eye on them, make sure they have fresh water and plenty of shade, maybe even dig them a little burrow in the shade, they should be ok even in Arizona's heat.

 

[DesertGrandma]

Joy,

I can't recommend any specific temperatures for you. But here is what I do: Keep them outside until 10:30 am (usually by then we are 100+), then bring them back out at 4pm. As long as they have lots of shade and places to hide, things should be OK. This weekend I did a test run on my new pens and kept the hatchlings outside the entire day. We didn't get too much above 105 here in Mesa, but the babies really did good and seemed to like it. Now that it's 110+ I would be a little extra cautious.

I think I tend to err a little on the conservative side. When the temp hits 100 I start getting nervous about leaving them out. But they seem to be so happy and active in the heat it seems like they want to stay out longer. I see them both getting in the water for a drink. Yes, I cringe at what the ground temp is when the weather is 110, ugh.

---

You got to be kidding me with those temps. Glad you responded Neal.
Joy, I know that one of those little guys Never even saw 88 degrees untill it went to your house.

It's funny to me that when I pick him up after he has been outside his bottom shell still feels cool. The grass is watered so it does start out cooler in the morning. Today I brought him in at 100 outside so I suspect the ground temp was higher than that and he was scooting around having fun. He's not crazy about his daily soaks, but he does like to drink out of the saucer. He is a great eater and has eaten everything I have tried him on. Last night I gave him a rose petal, he took one bite from me and then chose something else, LOL. Not his favorite I guess.

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You got to be kidding me with those temps. Glad you responded Neal.
Joy, I know that one of those little guys Never even saw 88 degrees untill it went to your house.

Oh, but at 100 degrees he was under the 80 percent shade cloth on one side of the enclosure.

---

They definatley seem to enjoy the outdoor heat rather than the indoor heat. I've got a big thread coming up that relates to this. I'll try to get it up tonight.

Yes I agree. My Lucy hated the MVB and stayed away from it. I am not using it at all anymore since they are going outside everyday.

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I Leave My Little Sully Outside for 8 Hours Daily, It Only Gets Around 80 and 90's so Far!
I Have Plenty Of Water and Shade In Every Corner Of His Pen

80's and 90's would be great!

---

Different kind of tortoise, but I thought I'd add my two cents.

I have 5 Texas hatchlings (about 8mo. old) in a Christmas tree storage bin. The bin is up on a shelf on the north side of the house. The angle of the sun is such that in the a.m. until about 11 it shines into the bin (I've got a piece of plywood over a quarter of it), but after that time the house offers shade. The last two days it has been 105 and 107. I leave the babies out 24/7, but I hose down their substrate every morning when I feed them.

They are MUCH MORE ACTIVE outside, and look much hungrier outside than they did in the house under the Zoo Med MVD. I see them walking around the bin. And there is no left-over food like there used to be.

My two leopard tortoise hatchlings (I think they're from August last year) are also outside 24/7. Their habitat is a wood frame set on the ground with a lattice cover.

I think that if you keep your eye on them, make sure they have fresh water and plenty of shade, maybe even dig them a little burrow in the shade, they should be ok even in Arizona's heat.

My outside enclosure is just the opposite of yours. Mine is shaded by the house on the east and gets no direct sun until about 11:30 a.m. Then it has direct sun until the sun goes below the fence line on the west. So far I haven't put them out in the afternoon for fear it is just too hot for them. When I measured the temps in the enclosure on a day that was 105, the ground temp was 120, and the ground temp under the shade cloth was 95. I think that would be okay, just fearful. I like your idea of a little underground cave, will just need to figure out if there is good enough drainage since I water it every night.

 

[Neal]

I would worry so much about the ground temperatures than the temperature the tortoise actually is, you know what I mean?

Do you have a temp gun? I think it's essential in this hobby, but if anything, it's extremely useful. As you mentioned, it may be super hot outside but the tortoise will use the shade and other elements to keep it's body at the temperatures it feels comfortable in. The key with our hot temperatures is to give him enough options so he can do that easily.

I'd like to see pictures of your outdoor enclosure.

 

[DesertGrandma]

I would worry so much about the ground temperatures than the temperature the tortoise actually is, you know what I mean?

Do you have a temp gun? I think it's essential in this hobby, but if anything, it's extremely useful. As you mentioned, it may be super hot outside but the tortoise will use the shade and other elements to keep it's body at the temperatures it feels comfortable in. The key with our hot temperatures is to give him enough options so he can do that easily.

I'd like to see pictures of your outdoor enclosure.

I ordered a temp gun from Amazon so it's on its way to me now. I posted some pics of my outdoor enclosure last week,but will go take another pic showing the new shade cloth and post it again in a few.

---

He is a pic of my outdoor enclosure. It is cement blocks with organic soil and tortoise grazing mix planted. The top is a redwood frame with hardware cloth and it is hinged in the middle to make it easier to open either side.
The second pic shows the same enclosure with an insert that is covered with 80 percent shade cloth.

---

I would worry so much about the ground temperatures than the temperature the tortoise actually is, you know what I mean?

Do you have a temp gun? I think it's essential in this hobby, but if anything, it's extremely useful. As you mentioned, it may be super hot outside but the tortoise will use the shade and other elements to keep it's body at the temperatures it feels comfortable in. The key with our hot temperatures is to give him enough options so he can do that easily.

I'd like to see pictures of your outdoor enclosure.

I ordered a temp gun from Amazon so it's on its way to me now. I posted some pics of my outdoor enclosure last week,but will go take another pic showing the new shade cloth and post it again in a few.

---

He is a pic of my outdoor enclosure. It is cement blocks with organic soil and tortoise grazing mix planted. The top is a redwood frame with hardware cloth and it is hinged in the middle to make it easier to open either side.
The second pic shows the same enclosure with an insert that is covered with 80 percent shade cloth.

---

Sorry...you'll have to flip the pictures. I should have done it before I posted but oh well...

 

[Yvonne G]

I think you're right to worry. Being on the hard, gravel and in an enclosed box will make it much hotter inside. Does it have to be on the gravel?

 

[DesertGrandma]

I think you're right to worry. Being on the hard, gravel and in an enclosed box will make it much hotter inside. Does it have to be on the gravel?

Actually its not on the gravel. We shoveled all the gravel away and poured/mixed an entire bag of organic soil onto the dirt. The drip line goes under the dirt also and has a couple of emitters that help keep it moist.

 

[Neal]

I think it's really good. I personally would have made it bigger, but if it works for you then that's all that matters. Good job!

 

[DesertGrandma]

I think it's really good. I personally would have made it bigger, but if it works for you then that's all that matters. Good job!

The good thing about using the blocks is that it can be enlarged somewhat. There is a good spot right across from it next to the western wall that will make a good permanent pen for when they are older. Next spring we plan to remove some of the desert plants and gravel and replace them with a grapevine/arbor and some hibiscus and grass. There is a mesquite tree there that is starting to provide some good shade too. Since our drip system is needing replacing, I will be able to put it on a separate line for watering the tortoise area. Long term plans....

 

[OllieInAZ]

Very glad you posted this. I've been wondering others opinions on this. I know a local breeder that I got one of my hatchlings from put her yearlings outside full-time. Hopefully Christy (TortieLuver) will chime in too -- she's down in Tucson and breeds sulcatas and leopards. I know she keeps her hatchlings outside at least part time but I can't recall what she said she does in the summer.

I've actually had all of my lil leos outside all week. The outdoor enclosure only gets morning sun and they have plenty of shade. They trot around quite a bit but also spend quite a bit of time dug down into the substrate under a hollow log. My girlfriend is also home during the day to check on them frequently. These 110+ days do worry me. Tonight I'm going to work on a new outdoor tort table for them that I'll keep on my patio. That way they'll still get a bit of direct sun from around 6-9am but the rest of the day will be full shade.

 

[DesertGrandma]

Very glad you posted this. I've been wondering others opinions on this. I know a local breeder that I got one of my hatchlings from put her yearlings outside full-time. Hopefully Christy (TortieLuver) will chime in too -- she's down in Tucson and breeds sulcatas and leopards. I know she keeps her hatchlings outside at least part time but I can't recall what she said she does in the summer.

I've actually had all of my lil leos outside all week. The outdoor enclosure only gets morning sun and they have plenty of shade. They trot around quite a bit but also spend quite a bit of time dug down into the substrate under a hollow log. My girlfriend is also home during the day to check on them frequently. These 110+ days do worry me. Tonight I'm going to work on a new outdoor tort table for them that I'll keep on my patio. That way they'll still get a bit of direct sun from around 6-9am but the rest of the day will be full shade.

Do you use one of those hollow logs from the petstore? That gives me a good idea. I do have one of those in my enclosure. Think I will dig down into the earth below it. It does seem to be a favorite place to go.