Looking for Cherryhead assistance

[Mike05]

Hey there all. Tiny bit of background first. I've been into turtles and tortoises my entire life. My family ran a small zoo and over the years while growing up all the animal people my parents knew gave me various turtles and tortoises. Fast forward my parents retired and the zoo is now owned by a non profit organization. Well since I have come to adulthood and lived out on my own I have had various turtles, mainly common snapping turtles and Alligator Snapping Turtles. My parents have had a Sulcata for about 10+ years now.

I recently decided to expand my pets and purchase two Cherryhead tortoises. Before getting them I have tried researching every thing I could. Have been on too many sites to count with so much information out there. Some saying opposite things of other sites. I decided to post on this forum because I have noticed a few people that are well known in the red foot community post here.

So I have had these two tortoises since June 21st. So 8 days now. I currently live on the coast in Virginia. The two tortoises are both about 6 inches. They were shipped to me and came in healthy in appearance, though they felt light to me for their size. I have them currently in a 5 by 5 fiberglass tub that's about a 1 1/2 tall. I have them on Cypress mulch that was damp when I first placed it in there. Turning the top layer it's still kinda damp underneath. I have a large Boston Fern in there with them. I have a large water dish that can easily fit both of them that's about an inch or so deep. I also have a large black plastic square flower pot that I have cut out three quarters of one side and turned it upside down for a house. I have wetted down sphagnum moss inside the house. I have a temperature and humidity gage where I have them. I have the tub inside my sun room. Sun room as in it's attached to the house but does not have A/C or heating that goes into it and is actually closed off by a door to the rest of the house. It's surrounded by 3 sides of sliding glass windows which are open all day and closed at night. Currently the temperatures have been around mid 80's during the day and low 70's at night. The humidity where I have them has been in the 60's during the day and at night it gets up into the high 80's. I have tried feeding them almost daily because they felt really light in weight. One tortoise eats and eats. I place it into the water and it drinks every time and has defecated twice in the water that I have seen. He also moves around the enclosure. The other tortoise I have seen drink once but I don't see it move around the enclosure at all. Both usually hide under the Boston Fern and dig into the mulch. I do see the more active one of the two in the hide box sleeping in there or just walking in and then back out. The less active tortoise I bring him out and he ignores any food I have on the clay plate and walks back towards the fern. I can get him to eat if I hold the food right in front of him with my fingers. But that is the only time that I have seen him eat and he eats very little. Very little as in today he took like 3 bites from a piece of Honey Dew the size of my thumb nail before going back under the fern. I have been feeding them Romain Lettuce, Honeydew, Black Berries, and Blue Berries. The blue berries they really weren't interested in. The first time I fed them black berries they ate 4 between the both of them. One ate 3 and the other ate 1. They seem to really like the Honeydew, and Lettuce the most. I was going to cut up a Papaya that I bought yesterday. Was gonna try that in the next day or two. Any suggestions on what I might try with the less active one would be much appreciated. I get that under the fern they probably feel safe and or there is more humidity under it. I am not taking them out constantly. The more active one has been out from under the fern almost every time I have gone out to feed them late morning and has walked over to the food plate when I brought it out. The less active one I have had to bring out and try to hand feed him every time before he walks back under the fern. Also I know I have only had them a little over a week but I'm just concerned since I see one very active and eating and drinking like a normal tortoise and one that I don't see move around and have to practically make him eat. I would post a picture but not entirely sure how. I will look into that. Thank you for any advise ya'll can give me and I will work on getting the pictures posted.

Mike

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Welcome.
First off, your enclosure is way too small for even one Redfoot that size. Redfoot are calmer than most species, but even they should never be kept in pairs. Especially in such a tiny thing. (They don't like confinement and they don't like another tortoise being around them.)
Your parameters should be between 77 at night to 84 during the day. UVB light either by direct sunlight or by lamps. Windows block most UVB and what gets through an open window would probably still be indirect.
Humidity should be 75% at a minimum.
Foods should include fruit up to 50% at most. I use about 20% fruit. Also offer Mazuri and leafy greens. Even some protein and than can be premium dog or cat food.
Redfoot can eat a lot of things that would make other species sick, but they need variety.
Can you post up photos of your pen and stuff?
It would be much easier to offer advice from photos.

 

[Pearly]

Agree with ZEROPILOT. You shy tort is likely to feel intimidated by the other who maybe the dominant one and tries to stay out of his sight. Desire to be safe from harm is much stronger than hunger. Those submissive torts if not removed from their high stressenvironment tend to get very sick and wither. I have a pair toobut mine are still little, and been kept together since hatching. I am peeparing big outdoor enclosure for them and either put physical barier between them or perhaps take on another couple of rf rescues. As for feeding check out my thread "Pearly's tips of feeding picky eater" or something like that. It goes into lot of detail and has visuals

 

[BrianC]

Hi Mike and welcome. Along with the previous two replies I would add that a vet check
would be in order. The fact that they seem light could be a sign of parasites. Another sign
would be refusing to eat. I've had cherry heads that would try to eat and it was just too painful
for them to do so. Flagyl did the trick although I'm not recommending it without a trip to the vet.
If the torts were kept outside they could have picked up any number of parasites or bacterial
infections (birds pooping in water, etc.). Good luck

 

[BrianC]

Hi Mike and welcome. Along with the previous two replies I would add that a vet check
would be in order. The fact that they seem light could be a sign of parasites. Another sign
would be refusing to eat. I've had cherry heads that would try to eat and it was just too painful
for them to do so. Flagyl did the trick although I'm not recommending it without a trip to the vet.
If the torts were kept outside they could have picked up any number of parasites or bacterial
infections (birds pooping in water, etc.). Good luck

 

[Mike05]

 

[Mike05]

Here are the pictures. The tortoise in the third picture is the one that I am more concerned with. He has more of the marbling. So evidently my wife came home and he had been chewing on the cuttlebone that I have in there and then walked over and started drinking a bunch of water. The last picture of the enclosure they are in currently was taken two days ago I believe. So I wrote the original post around 12:30am and was trying to include every thing I could think of but after working all day I was pretty tired. The enclosure I have them in isn't permanent. I brought it in from storage till I get some thing around my fencing in my backyard so they can not go under it. Parts of it don't touch the ground. It's a wooden privacy fence. So this is just temporary. Possibly will be used during the winter months. Also I've had them a week and I will be getting them on a more varied diet. I'm just starting out and I'm apprehensive about about making mistakes. Hence why I have come looking for advise. I do plan on getting to the vet. I already have a vet that does turtles and tortoises. My hypo snapping turtle I found out had tape worms and I got him treated for it.
Any ways it was mentioned that two redfoots should not be kept together? I'm not understanding that. It's not ok to keep two together but it's alright to keep multiple tortoises together? These two are supposedly hatch mates and have always been together. Their both the exact same size. I'm not sure of the sex of them but I'm not concerned with that until I get their care straighten out for the better. I have to wrap this up. Got work in the AM. Thanks for the replies.

Mike

 

[Pearly]

Hey Mike, they are very very pretty! Both of them! If you haven't already, google "TORTOISE LIBRARY" and "TURTLETARY". Both sites by our members and absolute TONS of good info on RF species. I keep a pair since they were just couple weeks old. They are yearlings now and still together. I've been doing lot of work for them on enclosures, heat/humidity/substrate, and lately on a big "tort diet kick". Mine are not best eaters so it's a constant challenge to keep them well fed but I am a mom of 3 picky eating children! So have plenty of experience and ideas in tricking them to fair nutrition I still chop their food. The menu example above is mango, endive and frisee lettuces, plus collard greens, opuntia (cactus pad), bit of cucumber and brown stuff is soaked Mazuri. I do the chopping once a day and divvy up stuff into portions for morning and afternoon feedings leaving bit for the following "first thing in the mornig, grandma, we're starving!!!" kind of a feeding

 

[Pearly]

Hey Mike, they are very very pretty! Both of them! If you haven't already, google "TORTOISE LIBRARY" and "TURTLETARY". Both sites by our members and absolute TONS of good info on RF species. I keep a pair since they were just couple weeks old. They are yearlings now and still together. I've been doing lot of work for them on enclosures, heat/humidity/substrate, and lately on a big "tort diet kick". Mine are not best eaters so it's a constant challenge to keep them well fed but I am a mom of 3 picky eating children! So have plenty of experience and ideas in tricking them to fair nutrition View attachment 179142View attachment 179143 I still chop their food. The menu example above is mango, endive and frisee lettuces, plus collard greens, opuntia (cactus pad), bit of cucumber and brown stuff is soaked Mazuri. I do the chopping once a day and divvy up stuff into portions for morning and afternoon feedings leaving bit for the following "first thing in the mornig, grandma, we're starving!!!" kind of a feeding

and this is what the serving looks like, only it's moved onto a piece of slate (rock) and there are always whole leaves of greens available for munching on. Btw, I always cut blueberries in 1/2's or 1/4's I think it's easier for them to eat that way and less risk of choking

 

[Mike05]

Thank you for the reply. I have been to both sites that you suggested. I tried feeding them Papaya but they didn't even touch it. I found a store that sells Dandelion leaves. They love that. The one that was more shy has started to come out more and eat more. While the more active one is still very much more active. Every morning when my wife or I go out to go to work he is just coming out of their house or from under the fern looking around. I think the less active one is starting to show more activity because when I originally posted I only had them for a week and now I have had them for over two weeks so maybe he was still getting used to his new surroundings. Possibly.

I found a grocery store that sells cactus pads but it had spines on it. My wife found out the hard way by rubbing her hand down it. They were very small spines. I didn't get them because of that. Was hoping to find spineless ones.

For the protein side of things. Is the Mazur diet good enough or should I supplement some thing else? I have read some people have used a small portion of low fat dry cat or dog food. But have also read it's bad for them. Maybe they were just referring to feeding them solely on a cat or dog food diet. Also I have heard people using hard boiled eggs. Does that include the yoke or just the whites?

Thank you,
Mike

 

[Anyfoot]

Thank you for the reply. I have been to both sites that you suggested. I tried feeding them Papaya but they didn't even touch it. I found a store that sells Dandelion leaves. They love that. The one that was more shy has started to come out more and eat more. While the more active one is still very much more active. Every morning when my wife or I go out to go to work he is just coming out of their house or from under the fern looking around. I think the less active one is starting to show more activity because when I originally posted I only had them for a week and now I have had them for over two weeks so maybe he was still getting used to his new surroundings. Possibly.

I found a grocery store that sells cactus pads but it had spines on it. My wife found out the hard way by rubbing her hand down it. They were very small spines. I didn't get them because of that. Was hoping to find spineless ones.

For the protein side of things. Is the Mazur diet good enough or should I supplement some thing else? I have read some people have used a small portion of low fat dry cat or dog food. But have also read it's bad for them. Maybe they were just referring to feeding them solely on a cat or dog food diet. Also I have heard people using hard boiled eggs. Does that include the yoke or just the whites?

Thank you,
Mike

Scrambled the whole egg including the shell. Crush the shell up fine and mix it in. Microwave for 1 minute. Let it cool first before feeding .
There is a small amount of D3 in the yolk. This helps absorption of calcium.

 

[Pearly]

Scrambled the whole egg including the shell. Crush the shell up fine and mix it in. Microwave for 1 minute. Let it cool first before feeding .
There is a small amount of D3 in the yolk. This helps absorption of calcium.

I add Mazuri or other brand pellets (soaked and mashed up) daily to the morning feeding. Protein is once a week. Dog/cat (good quality) food is ok but I like variety, so I rotate theirs between that, eggs, cooked shrimp (they LOVE IT!!!), any kind of lean meat I cut off small piece of what I cook that day and dice or shred into almost a paste consistency. Once they get bigger I will start buying organ meet as well. Right now they eat such tiny portions I'd be wasting most of it. You can also try sardines or anchovies just make sure there's no salt/tons of preservatives on them. As for the cactus pads the ones I buy have spines too, I just cut them into smaller sections and cut off all the spines with my pearing knife. I clean enough cactus to last for 2-3 days worth of feedings. Cactus is one of the staples my grandtorts are being fed

 

[Pearly]

One more thing, if your torts have always been together, they maybe ok. I have kept mine together from the beginning and they are still fine. I will separate if I have to but for now their food is so plentiful there's always leftover, 2 feedings per day, their space is vast for them so really no reason to compete for either food nor teritory. Now this may change once their sex hormones start kicking in, but that won't happen for a good long while.

 

[Pearly]

And forgot to tell you yet another thing, I have a thread on here that you may find helpful, it's called "Pearly's tips on feeding picky eaters" or simething like that. You can pull it up from the SEARCH feature. I just recently updated it with some new commercial forest tortoise pellets