Hello, I have a horsefield tortoise and this is my current setup. A tortoise table 61cm by 91cm with two hides. Im currently using a mini Mvb bulb 80w the brand is Arcadia. Temp at basking end is 38 and cool end is 22. Humidity is at 70 currently. The bulb is 8” from tortoise as is says on the bulb description. We live in wales and it’s still really cold at the moment but as soon as it’s warmer and we actually see some sun he will be outside during the days. I know the Mvb isn’t great but im wondering what my options are. I’ve already purchased a basking bulb that just gives off heat and light and have been told that’s fine. But what about the uv? I see tubes are the way to go but what one and how am I supposed to suspend it over a table? Is there some sort of wall fixture I could purchase that I can attach uv to then wall above the table?
Lighting setup help
- Thread starter Bethanrs
- Start date
A few things:
1. You need to get rid of the grass/hay/mossy stuff that is under the heat lamp. That stuff serves no purpose, it molds, they can choke on it, and it can be an impaction risk when they eat it, and eat it they will. Replace that with a flat piece of slate or sandstone sunk into the substrate for basking. The flat round stone in the other corner could work for this.
2. Get the Arcadia "ProT5 Kit" for UV. This is a HO UV tube that comes with the correct fixture and reflector. Mount it somewhere around 18-20 inches over head. The 22 inch or 34 inch one will work. Run it on a timer for 3-4 hours mid day only. ZooMed makes a light stand that you can buy to hang it from. You'd need one on each end. Or you can simply attach some upright 2x4s and put a 2x4 cross beam horizontally over the enclosure. PVC pipe can work for this too.
3. How do you keep the temperature up at night when the lights are out?
4. You need more ambient light. It should look like daytime in there.
5. Those dial type stick-on thermometers and hygrometers are notoriously inaccurate and unreliable. There is no way you have 70% humidity in an open table in a heated house. Your tortoise will pyramid if you don't remedy this.
6. Open topped tables are okay for grown adults, but not so good for babies. It is very difficult to maintain adequate temperatures and humidity for babies in open tables. And a wooden table will quickly rot with the necessary damp substrate. I suggest a vivarium type enclosure instead.
More here with a care sheet at the bottom:
Info For New People. Please Read This First.
Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...
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The flat piece of slate is for his food. He’s happy to bask on the substrate so i won’t add slate as that will limit his places to burrow. That’s the kit I’ve just ordered 👍🏻 don’t need to heat at night, he’s in the bedroom that doesn’t dip below 20. I’ve read and been told Russians don’t like too much humidity. I also don’t like vivariums as they get too hot for RussiansA few things:
1. You need to get rid of the grass/hay/mossy stuff that is under the heat lamp. That stuff serves no purpose, it molds, they can choke on it, and it can be an impaction risk when they eat it, and eat it they will. Replace that with a flat piece of slate or sandstone sunk into the substrate for basking. The flat round stone in the other corner could work for this.
2. Get the Arcadia "ProT5 Kit" for UV. This is a HO UV tube that comes with the correct fixture and reflector. Mount it somewhere around 18-20 inches over head. The 22 inch or 34 inch one will work. Run it on a timer for 3-4 hours mid day only. ZooMed makes a light stand that you can buy to hang it from. You'd need one on each end. Or you can simply attach some upright 2x4s and put a 2x4 cross beam horizontally over the enclosure. PVC pipe can work for this too.
3. How do you keep the temperature up at night when the lights are out?
4. You need more ambient light. It should look like daytime in there.
5. Those dial type stick-on thermometers and hygrometers are notoriously inaccurate and unreliable. There is no way you have 70% humidity in an open table in a heated house. Your tortoise will pyramid if you don't remedy this.
6. Open topped tables are okay for grown adults, but not so good for babies. It is very difficult to maintain adequate temperatures and humidity for babies in open tables. And a wooden table will quickly rot with the necessary damp substrate. I suggest a vivarium type enclosure instead.
More here with a care sheet at the bottom:
Info For New People. Please Read This First.
Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...
Everything you just said is the old wrong info. Please read the link I attached for more explanation.
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Please consider thar most of the information you've been given elsewhere is incorrect
Bought a meter to take humidity and it’s perfect for a horsefieldA few things:
1. You need to get rid of the grass/hay/mossy stuff that is under the heat lamp. That stuff serves no purpose, it molds, they can choke on it, and it can be an impaction risk when they eat it, and eat it they will. Replace that with a flat piece of slate or sandstone sunk into the substrate for basking. The flat round stone in the other corner could work for this.
2. Get the Arcadia "ProT5 Kit" for UV. This is a HO UV tube that comes with the correct fixture and reflector. Mount it somewhere around 18-20 inches over head. The 22 inch or 34 inch one will work. Run it on a timer for 3-4 hours mid day only. ZooMed makes a light stand that you can buy to hang it from. You'd need one on each end. Or you can simply attach some upright 2x4s and put a 2x4 cross beam horizontally over the enclosure. PVC pipe can work for this too.
3. How do you keep the temperature up at night when the lights are out?
4. You need more ambient light. It should look like daytime in there.
5. Those dial type stick-on thermometers and hygrometers are notoriously inaccurate and unreliable. There is no way you have 70% humidity in an open table in a heated house. Your tortoise will pyramid if you don't remedy this.
6. Open topped tables are okay for grown adults, but not so good for babies. It is very difficult to maintain adequate temperatures and humidity for babies in open tables. And a wooden table will quickly rot with the necessary damp substrate. I suggest a vivarium type enclosure instead.
More here with a care sheet at the bottom:
Info For New People. Please Read This First.
Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...
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Hi, I'm in Wales too.
Please be aware that there is a lot of old and incorrect information still being passed around and pet shops know very little about tort care so often sell equipment for profit which can be harmful to torts, but you'll only get up to date advice from many keepers with decades of experience here. Some of them have been involved in research and thankfully share their findings here so that our torts can have better lives. (Tom being one of the most respected and experienced on the forum)
So forget what you may have read or been told elsewhere and make this forum your main source of up to date information. It will help your tort thrive and save you a lot of money in vet bills.
You're right about MVBs they have been found to dry and damage tort shells, and any coiled or curly cfl type of bulb could damage tort eyes. So the uvb tube kits are a great option, with a separate flood basking bulb and maybe a CHE run through a thermostat for night heat. The carehseets will give you the temp range you should have. When it's warm enough your baby should only have short supervised time outside for a while (in a predator/bird proof container with shade and water available).
All torts need humidity and lack of it can cause shells to pyramid, so check the suggested humidity on the caresheet too.
This is probably included in the thread linked above but it is the caresheet for your tort
The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise
I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...
tortoiseforum.org
Last edited:
Lyn spelled it out ever so eloquently, as she always does. I tend to be more direct and blunt about it. You are not grasping the concept I'm trying to get across. The information that you have been given by the pet shop, and the info you've been reading and watching online is wrong. The humidity number you are referring to as "perfect for a horsfield" is a number someone else made up decades ago and has been repeated for generations. I learned that wrong info back in the late 70s and 80s, and it is still being repeated to this day. I used to repeat it too. Its wrong.
The humidity numbers that you found or were told are certainly survivable for adult horsfeild tortoises, but that is much too low for a baby. Between that low humidity and using the wrong bulb (MVB) your baby is going to pyramid as it grows. Pyramiding is permanent. Once it happens, you can't take it away. I'm trying to help you prevent it. If you insist on ignoring what we are telling you and continue to follow the pet shop advice, you will learn this lesson the hard way, and your tortoise will bear the evidence for the rest of its life.
Thanks for that. I’ve read that now and agree, I can’t see any signs of pyramid and will always look out for it. I believe he has a good diet, lambs lettuce, campanula, dandelion, cat grass, spider plant, violas etc. I’ve planted weeds and other safe foods ready for summer! (If it ever comes!) he’s soaked daily, some days he enjoys it more than others 😂 I think I’m doing a good job. I have to say I find this forum and some people rather patronising but maybe it’s just me. Got rid of the Mvb yesterday and put in the t5 uvb 😊 it’s very bright haha! He’s also got his basking light in the holder the mvb used to be. I believe I’ve got my temperatures and humidity right for my breed, he seems happy, energetic and is growing well 😊 ThankyouHi, I'm in Wales too.
Please be aware that there is a lot of old and incorrect information still being passed around and pet shops know very little about tort care so often sell equipment for profit which can be harmful to torts, but you'll only get up to date advice from many keepers with decades of experience here. Some of them have been involved in research and thankfully share their findings here so that our torts can have better lives. (Tom being one of the most respected and experienced on the forum)
So forget what you may have read or been told elsewhere and make this forum your main source of up to date information. It will help your tort thrive and save you a lot of money in vet bills.
You're right about MVBs they have been found to dry and damage tort shells, and any coiled or curly cfl type of bulb could damage tort eyes. So the uvb tube kits are a great option, with a separate flood basking bulb and maybe a CHE run through a thermostat for night heat. The carehseets will give you the temp range you should have. When it's warm enough your baby should only have short supervised time outside for a while (in a predator/bird proof container with shade and water available).
All torts need humidity and lack of it can cause shells to pyramid, so check the suggested humidity on the caresheet too.
This is probably included in the thread linked above but it is the caresheet for your tort
Please read both carefully it will help you avoid expensive mistakes.The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise
I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...
If you follow the threads your tort should do well.
You may not see pyramiding for years, but it all stems back to damage done after a dry start as babies or being kept too dry as they grow, not mainly diet as previously believed.
Open tables are very difficult to maintain the heat and humidity, that's why large vivs are recommended for babies rather than tables. Some people use pop up mini greenhouses successfully over open tables to try to contain both.
You may find www.thetortoisetable.org.uk useful for help with finding tort safe foods, but as you probably know not all safe foods are nutritious.
Please don't be offended by anyone offering advice here you can't always tell the tone of posts from the way they are typed which may have been done in a hurry to help. At the end of the day we all want the best for our torts and to stop new members making the common mistakes we may have made ourselves. You have a wealth of fantastic up to date knowledge here for free, so please take advantage of it.
Yes I’ve got the tortoise table app , it’s brilliant! Thankyou
I realise I may have been taking things too personally. The mvb is gone and i have the lighting you recommend. I’m looking into buying another led light for just lighting 😊 unfortunately I can’t afford to switch to a Vivarium now but I’m going to monitor the humidity closely with my new electronic meter. Yesterday I poured in 2 cups of warm water and mixed it around. Humidity shot up to 75! I’ll just do this each day until he’s grown and needs a bit less. The table is lined with a thick pool liner so it shouldn’t rot and it’s elevated on slats to allow airflow underneath. If it does happen to rot I’ll cross that bridge when it come to it. He’s in a bedroom and we have terrible trouble with humidity, the windows are dripping most days 😂 so I know it’ll never drop too low but I will work hard to keep adding water and moving it around. I may move his water closer to the heat to increase humidity further. Thankyou for your help, sorry if I seemed rude or reluctant , I wasn’t expecting to have got some many things wrong! Thanks again x
Most people are very conscientious and try very hard to do it right. Its a shocking revelation when people realize that everything they've read and been told from so many sources was wrong. Its immensely frustrating.
But imagine if this forum didn't exist, and you spent years of your time raising tortoises carefully and correctly, according to the advice you were given, and you had failure after failure and nothing but undersized pyramided tortoises to show for all of your hard work, effort and expense... That was me for nearly 20 years. I almost quit tortoises entirely many times. I knew something wasn't right, but could not figure out what. The breakthrough was humidity and hydration. Then we had to figure out WHY humidity and hydration worked for these animals that were supposedly from deserts. We've learned a lot since 2008, but we still have more to learn. My hope is that I can help other people to not have to go through the learning process that I went through, and just short cut right to the good info. There is a wide spectrum of acceptance/reluctance of this info. Many people take to it right away and are relieved to have discovered the correct care info. Many people are understandably reluctant at first, but over time begin to realize what is going on and why. Some people get upset and leave, and those people will eventually learn everything I am trying to give them the hard way.
I'm glad we were able to help you, and I hope you have a content, beautiful, healthy tortoise to enjoy for many years to come.
Thankyou 😊 sorry to bother you again Tom but I just have a few more questions if you don’t mind helping that is. I want to get things right.Most people are very conscientious and try very hard to do it right. Its a shocking revelation when people realize that everything they've read and been told from so many sources was wrong. Its immensely frustrating.
But imagine if this forum didn't exist, and you spent years of your time raising tortoises carefully and correctly, according to the advice you were given, and you had failure after failure and nothing but undersized pyramided tortoises to show for all of your hard work, effort and expense... That was me for nearly 20 years. I almost quit tortoises entirely many times. I knew something wasn't right, but could not figure out what. The breakthrough was humidity and hydration. Then we had to figure out WHY humidity and hydration worked for these animals that were supposedly from deserts. We've learned a lot since 2008, but we still have more to learn. My hope is that I can help other people to not have to go through the learning process that I went through, and just short cut right to the good info. There is a wide spectrum of acceptance/reluctance of this info. Many people take to it right away and are relieved to have discovered the correct care info. Many people are understandably reluctant at first, but over time begin to realize what is going on and why. Some people get upset and leave, and those people will eventually learn everything I am trying to give them the hard way.
I'm glad we were able to help you, and I hope you have a content, beautiful, healthy tortoise to enjoy for many years to come.
1- I give Sheldon calcium 2 times a week and Reptavite 2 times a week. He also has acces to a cuttle bone. Is this correct?
2- I plan on putting him outside in a secure enclosure, supervised for a few hours a day when the weather gets better and weather permitting. What temp is okay for him to be out? And he won’t need a basking bulb outside right? I’m also wondering would he still get sufficient UV on a cloudy day? Or does it have to be sunny?
Many thanks 🙏🏼
1. The routine you are following sounds good. There is a wide margin of error for supplement use. With a reasonably good diet, it is difficult to under or over do it. Be aware that your tortoise may ignore the cuttle bone for months, and then start munching on it out of the blue one day.
2. Its hard to list a temperature. It depends on many factors. If the ground is dry, the sun is out, and the wind isn't too bad, then 15-18 C is probably warm enough for some outside time. If it just rained, or its cloudy and overcast, or if there is a cold wind blowing, I would just leave him inside. No need for a basking bulb outside. You tortoise won't get much UV on a cloudy day, but that is okay because you have a great UV tube in the indoor enclosure. They don't need UV every day. They use UV to make D3, and then they store it. They can go months with no UV at all without it causing any problems, and they can go indefinitely with the right supplements.
Personally, I like the two enclosure system. Outside during fair weather, and inside at night and during cold weather, especially for babies and smaller juveniles.
So I have a basking floodlight on a smart plug and a t5. Today the basking floodlight didn’t turn on. I assume it’s blown, which is annoying as it’s only been used for 3 days!!! Luckily I’m off work with the flu 🙄 so I was able to help.
I tried changing it to a ceramic heat bulb that I’ve never used and that didn’t work either. But I’ve put an old mvb in and that’s working? Have I just had some dud bulbs? 🤷🏻♀️
My question is, had I not been home from work to put some other heat source in would Sheldon have been okay? The room he’s in is about 20c
I tried changing it to a ceramic heat bulb that I’ve never used and that didn’t work either. But I’ve put an old mvb in and that’s working? Have I just had some dud bulbs? 🤷🏻♀️
My question is, had I not been home from work to put some other heat source in would Sheldon have been okay? The room he’s in is about 20c
The ceramic heat emitter doesn't give off light only heat and it has to have time to warm up.
As for the flood bulb, sounds like you either got a bad one or the fixture is not big enough for the wattage of the bulb. Always use ceramic socket fixtures.
As long as the tortoise is a species that requires those lower temps at night then she would have been fine until you had gotten home. It's not something you want though day after day. They have to be able to warm up to eat, digest, etc but one day would have been fine.
As for the flood bulb, sounds like you either got a bad one or the fixture is not big enough for the wattage of the bulb. Always use ceramic socket fixtures.
As long as the tortoise is a species that requires those lower temps at night then she would have been fine until you had gotten home. It's not something you want though day after day. They have to be able to warm up to eat, digest, etc but one day would have been fine.
This would have been like a cold rainy day in the wild. No big deal and no problem once in a while.
The problem might be the fixture and not the bulbs. Save those bulbs until you have time to verify.
The bulb was 75w and the ceramic holder is up to 150 watts 🤔 aww that’s good to know! Thankyou
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