Ok, well I wanted some extra opinions on this. I live in sahaurita Arizona and I have two fairly large leopard tortoises that spend 90% of their time outside. I have built them a den, but obviously they prefer the other side of the yard, so when it's dark out they sleep under a bush or slightly in the open. That been said, what I wanted to know is if you guys think that it is still too cold for the leopard tortoises to stay outside through the night and full time now. Let me know what your thoughts are.
Leopards outside.
- Thread starter dcwolfe
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I live in Pennsylvania and I keep my leopard out pretty much all day. So in Arizona you should be fine. As for night, as long as you have them in a heated night box that doesn't allow any predators to get in, I'd say go for it.
Ya, I'm not worried about the day, but was curious on temperatures for night I think the lowest it gets at around 6sh am is 53. I bring them inside, but I'm wondering what Temps that I could leave them out with out the heated box. I do not have to worry about preditors as I live somewhat in the city and have extremely tall walls.
I never leave any of my tortoises out at night. The low temps for an adult leopard, that I would be comfortable with, would have to be in the 70's. If the humidity is low, I suppose you might not end up with a sick tort in the 70's.
I think you are fine, especially with our daytime temps the way they are. There has only been a day or two in the last month that I've brought them in, but otherwise they're outside without any night heat. Adults and a few sub adults.
50 degrees as a low is my threshold.
50 degrees as a low is my threshold.
I like to put mine in the shed at night. Once the night temps get up to 55F consistently, I turn off the heat. But I still gather them all up and put them into the shed. The leopards and YF/RF are the only ones that don't go back into their sheds at night. But I faithfully gather them all up and lock 'em up.
So 50 is the lowest the temperature leopards can stay outside without added heat?
I think the humidity is going to be a variable you need to consider. High humidity and below 80F is a problem, but if the humidity is low, colder can be ok.
Some people let them get cold at night and get away with it. Other people let them get cold at night and they get sick and die. I've seen lots of both.
Want to do what is survivable in some situations? Or do you want to do what is optimal?
I have spent thousands of dollars and countless hours trying to save and rehab tropical species of tortoises that were kept too cold because someone, somewhere said it was fine. Its not fine. Temperate species like russians and greeks, need colder nights. Leopards, sulcatas and stars do BEST with warmer nights. I've kept them both ways for many years, so I have a lot of experience to draw comparison from. I never let my leopards or sulcatas dip below 80 at night in winter, and never below 70-75 at night in summer when we will have 100+ degree days here every day.
Here are examples of how I do this:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/double-door-night-box.129054/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/my-best-night-box-design-yet.66867/#post-632974
No. You will undoubtably find someone who says they do that and their tortoise is still alive. Who you will not hear from are the people who did this and no longer have a tortoise because their tortoise got sick and died. Not something those people advertise on a public forum.
Also, everyone reading should take into consideration that the Phoenix, AZ area is a very unique place on our continent due to its unusually warm temperatures. Yes they get an overnight low that is cold sometimes, but they also stay warmer later into the evening and get hot much earlier in the day than most places. They also tend to have a much hotter spring, much earlier than the rest of the country, and stay hotter later into fall. My area has similar winter highs and lows to Phoenix, but our climates are vastly different. Compare for yourself in your own area.
My point here is that what works for someone in Phoenix, might lead to disaster elsewhere. I you leave a leopard tortoise outside with no heat in the 50's, it might survive, in some circumstances, some of the time. In other circumstances, it will die.
If you lock your leopard up at night in a heated area, and keep the temp 75-80, the leopard will thrive and not get sick.
Like Tom and others said, there is no specific temperature for nightime lows. I actually keep them out down to 60, but only when it is dry. I know someone who leaves theirs out down to 40. I relate it to being a person. Would you like to sleep outside in 50 degree or less weather with no clothes? Tortoises get cold too, so be a good keeper and protect them from colder weather.
Seeing where this discussion has gone, and given that I suggested a 50-degree threshold is fine, I feel I need to take a defensive, explanatory, approach here. I gave the advice knowing that the OP was in my area, and would likely not recommend this for people in other areas, just so we’re clear. Like a lot of us on the forum, I care a lot for my tortoises and the hobby and would never suggest anything that could potentially be harmful, and I would certainly NEVER give advice unless I had direct extensive experience on the matter or was otherwise not completely confident in myself. That implies that my basis is more in depth than the false confidence one might have that assumes their methods are optimal solely because they have never had a sick or dead tortoise. I would never be so reckless.
I am not interested in pushing my advice as the best way to go. We all have our own experiences that direct our husbandry methods, temperature thresholds, or whatever. Take my input and compare it with yours and others and make your own decision. If you want to hear why I suggest something or learn more of my experiences, I am more than happy to oblige. For what it's worth, I do not think keeping leopards warm all night is the best practice. Not that it would harm them, but from my experience, I notice increased general activity levels during daylight hours, increased breeding activity, and more aggressive eating habits when my tortoises are allowed to cool down at night. If kept warm at night, my tortoises would tend to stay in a corner of their comfortable hide all day long without any apparent motivation to move around.
If you feel my suggestion was out of line, then I want support for why you think that way and it better be direct experience relative to keeping tortoises in the Phoenix area otherwise I would challenge it. I’ve not heard from anyone in the area that would argue against my suggestion, but if you know of someone please direct them here or even have them call me, (480)510-7813. I’m a nice guy and always happy to talk tortoises!
I am not interested in pushing my advice as the best way to go. We all have our own experiences that direct our husbandry methods, temperature thresholds, or whatever. Take my input and compare it with yours and others and make your own decision. If you want to hear why I suggest something or learn more of my experiences, I am more than happy to oblige. For what it's worth, I do not think keeping leopards warm all night is the best practice. Not that it would harm them, but from my experience, I notice increased general activity levels during daylight hours, increased breeding activity, and more aggressive eating habits when my tortoises are allowed to cool down at night. If kept warm at night, my tortoises would tend to stay in a corner of their comfortable hide all day long without any apparent motivation to move around.
If you feel my suggestion was out of line, then I want support for why you think that way and it better be direct experience relative to keeping tortoises in the Phoenix area otherwise I would challenge it. I’ve not heard from anyone in the area that would argue against my suggestion, but if you know of someone please direct them here or even have them call me, (480)510-7813. I’m a nice guy and always happy to talk tortoises!
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This forum is at its best when knowledgeable keepers share their experiences in a non-confrontational way that stimulates further discussion (instead of trying to squash it) on the topic. Sharing different experiences and viewpoints allows us to learn something new. Excellent post as always, Neal. Wish you would participate more on the forum.
Thank you, that is very encouraging.
As if working a ton, 2 kids and a wife, tortoises, and church responsibilities weren't enough to take up my time I decided I needed to go to graduate school, so forum involvement is just not happening very much right now. I'll participate when I can though.
As if working a ton, 2 kids and a wife, tortoises, and church responsibilities weren't enough to take up my time I decided I needed to go to graduate school, so forum involvement is just not happening very much right now. I'll participate when I can though.
Interesting discussion. Living in New York I think I will stick to 60-70 as a temperature low to leave him out at night. He is 5 years old and he does love being outside. This is my first Leopard. Thank you all for such an interesting discussion.
What are your daytime highs?
Right now a few days have been 75 or so. But only in the 60's today and the next week or so.
You'll definitely need some supplemental nigh time heat. When it's 80's here it's usually that temperature for several hours which heats everything up (ground temperatures, rocks, walls, etc...), which helps sustain favorable temperatures long after the sun goes down. Your temperatures sound like some cool winter days here, and it's not likely your tortoise will be able to elevate its body temperature long enough to sustain itself through the cool nights. This is just me guessing here, a better resource would be someone who keeps leopards in your area.
