Leopard with his head stuck inside his shell

[TerriB]

Hi Guys
I joined this forum in the hope that you can all give me some advice regarding my 24yr old male Leopard tortoise.
I have had him since he was a baby, and he is in good health. He wanders around the house as he pleases, and goes outside when the weather permits.
Just recently, (say over the last 2- 3 months) he has started to get his head stuck inside his shell. He somehow tips his head upwards so the underside of his chin catches on the dome of his shell, and he can't seem to retract his head back enough to free it. I can hold his chin and gently push his head back and down, freeing him, and he then comes out and carries on walking around normally.
When he is stuck, he thrashes about with his front legs (which is what alerts me to his predicament) and secrets a really strong smelling 'wee'.
I have tried soaking him to see if he relaxes enough to free himself, but to no avail.
He can go weeks without getting stuck, but then can get stuck a couple of times a day. I can't think of anything that triggers an episode - it doesn't happen at a certain time of day, he can be eating or just sat about, it is not when he retracts his head quickly or in defence. His shell is not deformed. Apart from this, he is eating & behaving normally.
I have spoken to my local vet, and although he hasn't yet examined him, he thinks the only answer may be surgery to remove some of the shell, which I don't want to contemplate at this stage!
Has anyone else experienced anything like this?
I tried to take photos, but trying to hold the camera & him still when he is thrashing about proved a little challenging!
Any suggestions or help would be gratefully received

 

[wellington]

How's his beak, does it need to be trimmed? Possibly that is the problem? If his beak is not over grown, I wouldn't have a clue why he does this and how it's getting stuck. See what others with more experience say. @Yvonne G @Tom @tortadise

 

[TerriB]

That's the first thing I thought of too, but his beak is fine.

 

[Gillian M]

Welcome to the forum.

 

[Yvonne G]

This seems to be a problem with leopard tortoises. You're the third new member since I've been on here who has this story. But the other two had a slightly different 'twist' to it. Their tortoises' heads weren't so far back into the shell and all they had to do was tilt the head slightly to bring it out.

It seems the distance between the bottom and top shells isn't far enough apart. But looking at your picture, your tortoise brings his head so far inside I doubt its the same thing. There must be a ridge on the underside of his shell that he's catching his head on. That part is covered with skin, so it isn't possible to use a Dremmel to grind it smooth. If something like that were going to take place it would be like an operation, and would have to be done by a vet because of the skin, blood, stitches, etc.

I'm sorry, but other than advising you to take him and these pictures along to a qualified tortoise vet, I really don't have any advice for you. I'm at a loss.

 

[Kasia]

Hi Guys
I joined this forum in the hope that you can all give me some advice regarding my 24yr old male Leopard tortoise.
I have had him since he was a baby, and he is in good health. He wanders around the house as he pleases, and goes outside when the weather permits.
Just recently, (say over the last 2- 3 months) he has started to get his head stuck inside his shell. He somehow tips his head upwards so the underside of his chin catches on the dome of his shell, and he can't seem to retract his head back enough to free it. I can hold his chin and gently push his head back and down, freeing him, and he then comes out and carries on walking around normally.
When he is stuck, he thrashes about with his front legs (which is what alerts me to his predicament) and secrets a really strong smelling 'wee'.
I have tried soaking him to see if he relaxes enough to free himself, but to no avail.
He can go weeks without getting stuck, but then can get stuck a couple of times a day. I can't think of anything that triggers an episode - it doesn't happen at a certain time of day, he can be eating or just sat about, it is not when he retracts his head quickly or in defence. His shell is not deformed. Apart from this, he is eating & behaving normally.
I have spoken to my local vet, and although he hasn't yet examined him, he thinks the only answer may be surgery to remove some of the shell, which I don't want to contemplate at this stage!
Has anyone else experienced anything like this?
I tried to take photos, but trying to hold the camera & him still when he is thrashing about proved a little challenging!
Any suggestions or help would be gratefully received View attachment 177950 View attachment 177951

It does not look as him stuck but more like something in neck bone or nervous structure not allowing him to take out his head. I would at least do X-ray and if no certain diagnosis would be made I would send it out around different animal hospital to get the word , maybe someone dealth with it? If he does it again take the wee sample for examination , probably will be helpful.

 

[TerriB]

Many Thanks Guys
Luckily, I managed to get him seen by our vet whilst he was 'stuck' so he could see exactly what the issue was. Like us, the vet had never come across it before - he had seen injuries and muscular issues, but never this. He could find no abnormalities with the shell, or reasons that would cause the issue. He has taken blood, stool & urine samples for testing but is not hopeful of anything showing up, so has put a call out to all zoo's and specialists to see what he can find out. I'll keep you all posted!

 

[jockma]

I know you said you'd keep us posted but I've been thinking about this little (big?) guy. Any updates?

 

[Pearly]

Just wanted to wish you and your tort best of luck and hope to see some happy updates very soon

 

[TerriB]

Thank you all for your ongoing support.
We received the test results back. They showed very slight dehydration and a high count of white blood cells, so we are now on a 7 day course of general mild antibiotics. The thinking is that he may have an infection that is irritating him, which causes him to try and 'scratch' his head by retracting it too far, but to be honest I am not that hopeful. The good news is that he has not lost any of his strength or obstinance - trying to persuade him to take his medicine has proved that for sure! But having had him for over 20 years, I just know there is something not quite right.
We will keep trying to eliminate causes until hopefully we find the root of the problem so we can get him properly sorted out. Any suggestions would be very gratefully received. I will of course keep posting updates as and when I have any news.

 

[Jodie]

Thank you for this post. I will continue to follow. I have leopards and am pretty sure this would have caused me to panic. What a crazy predicament!

 

[jockma]

I'm glad to hear that you found at least one issue (high white blood cell count) I'm hopeful that you will resolve this problem soon. I hope you spend another wonderful 20 years with him.

 

[BrianWI]

Do you feed him all he can eat or a set amount?

 

[Pearly]

I keep thinking about it. Feeling really badly for your baby and for your. My babies seem to tuck their heads in when they are uncomfortable, either by reflex trying to protect their head/face from physical harm, or when they just get scared, or when they try to get something off their face. They do it a lot in their bath where they walk into the deepest end of the tub, totally submerge their heads and tuck in and out few times. I never see anything "come off" during that cleaning routine, but maybe dust, or something in their little eyes or nustrils?... After all they can't get a tissue and wipe their faces off but my babies never get their heads "stuck" inside for prolonged periods of time. Maybe that elevated white cell count indicates beginnings of respiratory infection where things in head/neck region were getting congested, puffy tissue... You know, like we at times get that "ear that can't pop", or "thing in a throat that just won't go down no matter how hard you swallow".... I'm hoping that antibiotic will catch it in time to prevent bigger problem. Please keep us posted, we are all learning from one another's experiences.

 

[TerriB]

Do you feed him all he can eat or a set amount?

In good weather he is free to roam outside so he eats whatever he wants. He doesn't eat continuously though. Just grazes here and there on grass and then scoffs my best plants when he finds them!

 

[TerriB]

I keep thinking about it. Feeling really badly for your baby and for your. My babies seem to tuck their heads in when they are uncomfortable, either by reflex trying to protect their head/face from physical harm, or when they just get scared, or when they try to get something off their face. They do it a lot in their bath where they walk into the deepest end of the tub, totally submerge their heads and tuck in and out few times. I never see anything "come off" during that cleaning routine, but maybe dust, or something in their little eyes or nustrils?... After all they can't get a tissue and wipe their faces off but my babies never get their heads "stuck" inside for prolonged periods of time. Maybe that elevated white cell count indicates beginnings of respiratory infection where things in head/neck region were getting congested, puffy tissue... You know, like we at times get that "ear that can't pop", or "thing in a throat that just won't go down no matter how hard you swallow".... I'm hoping that antibiotic will catch it in time to prevent bigger problem. Please keep us posted, we are all learning from one another's experiences.

Thank you - that makes a lot of sense. I hope it is as simple as that and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the antibiotics help and he stops doing it. It is horrible to see to him panicking when he is stuck and knowing I can't prevent it happening. :-(

 

[Aaron K.]

Thank you - that makes a lot of sense. I hope it is as simple as that and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the antibiotics help and he stops doing it. It is horrible to see to him panicking when he is stuck and knowing I can't prevent it happening. :-(

Hi, i just read this and have a 16 year old leopard myself. Haven't seen any updates, but here's a thought. Since you have had him since a youngster, if this just started happening, I would doubt it's related to abnormal growth or it would have happened right along. How about the possibility of arthritis in the neck and it possibly gets locked in that position. Like a calcium deposit. In the photo's I didn't see anything that would be physically stuck.
Hope things are better.

 

[TerriB]

Thanks Aaron. Over the last few months we have been visiting a specialist 'exotics' vet. We have had x-rays and full body scans but can find no obvious cause. The only thing we did find was a bit of mouth rot. This was fully treated with a minor procedure and an intense course of antibiotics and some opioid pain killers and my little boy started to become his normal self again. Once the opioid pain killers wore off and we changed to a different type of pain killer however, he deteriorated and had a few bad days of being almost constantly stuck. So we gave him a few more shots of opioid until he had a few days of seeming 'comfortable' - he was still getting 'stuck' a few times each day, but only just (his head was not fully upturned and lodged, he just had down to his nostrils covered and was very easy to free). We turned up his basic heat up to 30 degrees & increased his uv exposure to 24 hours a day and am I pleased to report that he has now gone 4 full days with no issue. He is starting to show signs of his cheeky self again. He has eaten more in the last week than he has in the whole of the last six months. He is happy to relax with his neck outstretched and chin resting on the floor, and his back legs stretched out behind him. We are certainly not taking it for granted that he is 'fixed', but he is off all medication and is improving slowly each day. We need to reduce his temp and bring the uv exposure back down to more normal levels, but will do this slowly over time to ensure he remains comfortable. No doubt we will have set backs every now and then, but whilst he seems happy, we are just grateful for our time with him.

 

[Kasia]

Thanks Aaron. Over the last few months we have been visiting a specialist 'exotics' vet. We have had x-rays and full body scans but can find no obvious cause. The only thing we did find was a bit of mouth rot. This was fully treated with a minor procedure and an intense course of antibiotics and some opioid pain killers and my little boy started to become his normal self again. Once the opioid pain killers wore off and we changed to a different type of pain killer however, he deteriorated and had a few bad days of being almost constantly stuck. So we gave him a few more shots of opioid until he had a few days of seeming 'comfortable' - he was still getting 'stuck' a few times each day, but only just (his head was not fully upturned and lodged, he just had down to his nostrils covered and was very easy to free). We turned up his basic heat up to 30 degrees & increased his uv exposure to 24 hours a day and am I pleased to report that he has now gone 4 full days with no issue. He is starting to show signs of his cheeky self again. He has eaten more in the last week than he has in the whole of the last six months. He is happy to relax with his neck outstretched and chin resting on the floor, and his back legs stretched out behind him. We are certainly not taking it for granted that he is 'fixed', but he is off all medication and is improving slowly each day. We need to reduce his temp and bring the uv exposure back down to more normal levels, but will do this slowly over time to ensure he remains comfortable. No doubt we will have set backs every now and then, but whilst he seems happy, we are just grateful for our time with him.

Bless the Lil'guy it is a shame though that you still don't have a clue about what causes him getting stuck.I keep my fingers crossed for you both

 

[jockma]

I'm so glad he's doing better! It's good he doesn't need the medication anymore. I'm very hopeful that he'll make a full recovery.

I wondered if it might be muscle spasms/cramps due to a vitamin or metabolic issue. Like the extremely painful kind you get in your toes that makes them to curl up in odd positions.