Leopard Tort Mom - Trying NOT to Panic

[shehick]

My baby leopard tortoise began acting strangely yesterday. He is staying in his favorite hide and not coming out on his own. I took him out last night and put him in front of his food but he just went back to sleep. I did wake up to almost no food left but he was back in his hide. I took him out and immediately soaked him where he peed and pooped, both looked normal. I put some food down, dusted it and offered a few soaked Mazuri pellets as well. He ate some greens, about half a pellet and went back to his hide. Now, I gave him spring mix for the first time 3 days ago and have been giving that to him since - yesterday and today - could that be causing this? He typically gets weeds/grasses from outside.

Temps are from 84-100F (6ftx3ft enclosure) and he is at 88F in the hide he's in. Humidity is at 85%.

Any and all advice is appreciated, I'm trying not to panic but this isn't like him and at his size, it's horrifying.

 

[wellington]

First, the 100 temp should only be under his basking spot, incase its all over it shouldn't be. Second, you are a giant coming over him. That scares him and will hide out more until he realizes you won't eat him. Give him some time to adjust. A wider variety of a diet is needed and the more natural you can feed, like grass, weed, flowers, etc, is much better then grocery store greens. So feed him more of the natural if he eats it with just a little of the grocery greens

 

[wellington]

Also, with my first one years ago. I made a humid side and a dry side. He stayed in the humid side most of the time. You might want to give him a humid enclosure, not just a hide. It might be too hot and dry outside the hide.

 

[shehick]

I've had him for about a month and a half now. 100 is only his basking spot and I can see him from my couch, he's usually super active running back and forth but he's sleeping in his hide all day all of a sudden. Not to be rude, but I don't think you read my post through because up until the day before yesterday, all I've given him is weeds/grasses from outside. His entire enclosure is also humid, he's in a closed chamber.

 

[shehick]

 

[wellington]

I did read your post. You mentioned only a humid hide. I also understood the feeding. Just saying, the natural way is better, so feeding 2 days of the store bought is not as good, specially if he is eating grass and weeds. Most won't at that young of an age. I wasn't sure how long you had him, you didn't say. Are you using good thermometers, not the puck type? The puck type are not reliable and the temps could be off. Are you soaking him every day? Also, I always noticed my leopard not roaming as much once he took a few rounds of the enclosure. If I changed things up, he would spend a couple days or so investigating and then wouldn't so much again.
Double check all temps, just to be sure they haven't changed. Then try changing his environment a bit and see if that helps. Also keep an eye on him to see if it's just a thing he's going through.

 

[shehick]

I have just been having some issues with my disabilities making it harder to bend over so I was going to try to feed a little easier this week. I'm going back to weeds tomorrow, though because this is too much of a coincidence for me. I also kinda thought the spinach and other things in the spring mix would add a little more to his diet than he gets from weeds but eh, I don't know now. Usually the handful of weeds I bring in is 90% grass and clovers and about 10% plantains, dandelion and other various weeds. If I see a dandelion flower I'll throw one in once or twice a week as well. I also feed Mazuri and Marion Red pellets 2-3 days a week. (pre-soaked) I am using a temp gun to take temps and all of the temps I gave were taken minutes before this post. He does get soaked daily and sprayed twice daily, although I didn't soak him last night as I usually do. I soaked him as soon as I got up and realized he was STILL hiding, though. He pooped and peed in the soak and it all looked normal. My breeder (Jodie here on TFO) suggested it could be a growth spurt (he's 3 months today) or him going through a phase. I just stress seeing all of the failure to thrive dead baby tortoise threads here. Such a drastic change in his attitude got me nervous.

 

[wellington]

I understand. Sorry, I didn't know it was hard for you to get the weeds. Spinach is not good for them if you feed a lot, so just be careful of that. It wouldn't hurt either to still use the spring mix, just as a small portion of the diet. They do go through their different moods, I guess I would call them. Hard to say why. Knowing you got him from an active forum member, I wouldn't worry so much. I know it's hard not too. It sounds like all else is good. So just keep a little closer eye on him. I bet he will get back to normal soon. This may also be his normal. May be more comfortable now, doesn't feel the need to find an escape route.

 

[shehick]

I did totally forget that he's only been in this new, larger enclosure for like a week. I feel a little better, I just haven't seen him up and around at all. Maybe this is pretty normal for him and it was less apparent in his old, smaller enclosure because the temps/humidity weren't easy to keep ideal and he had to move gradients more often.

 

[Alexio]

I was admiring your enclosure and i have a few questions and suggestions. First it looks like you have 4 lamp fixtures 2 lighting and 2 heat emitters for night heat. Are you lights in the middle and heat emitters on the sides? If so, I would try moving the lights to one side so you have a hotter side brighter side on one half and a warmer less bright side. It's also possible you are getting some greenhouse effect from the sun comming in through the window warming the enclosure more. Do you have thermostats for the heat emitters?
Secondly what are you doing for air exchange? Does your top have vents or slits at all ? It's hard to tell from the pictures if the sides zip all the way down and if they connect to the bottom?

 

[BrianWI]

I would worry much less. You are taking good care of him. He will do fine. Sometimes they sleep more. Sometimes less. He could be tried from exploring the new digs.

 

[Gillian M]

I agree with BrianWI. Please try not to worry: torts take a LONG time to adjust to a new environment. He'll settle down so don't get so worried.

 

[Markw84]

Leopard tortoises like to spend their time under bushes where they feel more protected. When that are young like yours they spend most all the time under bushes you new enclosure is very open with no security for your little guy. I would put in several plants. You could use spider plants or prayer plants or even fake plants. Give your tortoise many places he can be out, yet secure under the edge of a plant. I think you will find he will act much differently. You are doing so many thing right you little guy will do great!

 

[Pearly]

You sound just like they way I was last year. My RF babies are 1 year old now and I have to admit I worry/panic much less. I think that all that "worry/panic" may have been what has made a difference between life and death to one of my babies who was withdrawn and poor eater. In my experience sudden behavior changes usually have to do with the environment. I know you've said you've been keeping close eye on the enclosure temps but I'd just keep an eye on it. I have several thermo/hygrometers in different areas of the enclosure and when my babies do something out of ordinary it's usually tied to that. Try to relax a bit. You are doing a very fine job. Give yourself some credit and please keep us posted. I think it'll be ok and if some tweaking needs to be done, then that's ok too

 

[shehick]

Good news, everyone! The issue resolved! I've been having trouble sourcing a few supplies I need (like a digital hydrometer and a second CHE) and I was leaving one of the small lights on in conjunction with the CHE I already have to make sure temps didn't fall too low at night. Keeping in mind I live in Alaska and we only have 2 hours of darkness right now, I didn't see how it would disrupt anything. However, I bit the bullet and turned it off last night and this morning when I woke up and turned all the lights on, he came out, stretched, went for a drink/self-soak in his water dish and is now eating. I don't know why it changed all of a sudden but he seems to be back to normal!

@Alexio - The two large lamps on the ends are grow light flood bulbs, the small lamp on the left is a CHE and the small one next to it is a flood light that will be changed to a UVB as soon as I get my hands on one. (He's taken outside for UVB atm) The CHE is on a thermostat and the probe is placed next to his hide. It maintains 80-84 at night. The window doesn't allow any sun/heat in but is open because it's getting warmer here in AK and we don't have air conditioning. As far as air exchange goes, the two semi-circles are zippered access points and I am in there misting, feeding or soaking his substrate 2-3 times a day, if not more. I also do leave a 1" gap in the zippers to allow some hot air to escape.

@Markw84 - I am working on finding suitable plants locally. I have to ensure that they have not been treated with pesticides and anything I plant in there from seeds he isn't going to let live. I am planning on grabbing a final plant light for the center and planting some grass seeds in there soon to see how they do. I like to think he's too small to kill it ALL off. I won't risk fake plants because I do not want him seeing green and trying to eat.

@Pearly - My husband makes fun of me for how often I am in there with the temp gun, spraying the dried top layer of substrate, pouring cup after cup of water to soak the soil through - making sure everything is right for my little man. He means a lot to me and I wouldn't know what to do with myself if he died. I know the first year is the scariest part and part of me wishes I hadn't joined the forum to learn that! I had quite a few amazing members guide me through getting the setup I had proper and functioning, though and I know my baby was raised right. It's just terrifying when your little one goes from barrelling from one end to the other to not coming out at all. I am so relieved he's okay and can't wait to get him past his year mark. I'm already planning the birthday party.

@BrianWI @Gillian Moore - Thank you. It's good to know that I am doing right by him and that I should have no reason to worry.

Tom has already told me this should be the part where I'm just enjoying my new baby - and I am - but tortoise keeping is stressful when you hear about how many babies die because of this or that or no reason at all! I'm learning, though and when I panic, I have an amazing resource to turn to where everyone can tell me he's fine, I'm overreacting and we can all laugh about how psychotic I was next year.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I DO like that enclosure?
Is that a greenhouse of some sort or something made for tortoises?
I can see many members being able to use such a thing!

 

[shehick]

@ZEROPILOT - I made a post about it here - My 'Easy' Closed Chamber
It is a small portable greenhouse I found on Amazon for $50.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

@ZEROPILOT - I made a post about it here - My 'Easy' Closed Chamber
It is a small portable greenhouse I found on Amazon for $50.

Missed it. Thanks.