Kenan Red Foots!

tortkief

New Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2021
Messages
9
Location (City and/or State)
CA to SATX
Hello everybody!

New owner to a pair of Red-Foot hatchlings from Kamp Kenan.
They are in a tortoise house with coco, cypress mulch and reptabark substrate. They have a couple of sphag moisture hideouts. Lighting is a tube UVB and a CHE for heat. In their enclosed portion of the house, they have a heating pad mounted on the lid. Temps stay in the 80's. I spray in the mornings and have a fogger timed a few times a day.

My only concern is that these buggers love to sleep and hide, they'll nibble at food after a nice soaking outside, but not much. I've tried soaked Mazuri pellets, worms and crickets, their salads that I mix... Different combos and I can't seem to get them to eat much.

I am moving from SoCal to San Antonio, TX shortly. Cannot wait for them to grow and have their outdoor enclosure. We'll have a sunroom, so I plan on locating them in there for now.
 

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Jan A

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2021
Messages
874
Location (City and/or State)
Boulder, CO
Hello everybody!

New owner to a pair of Red-Foot hatchlings from Kamp Kenan.
They are in a tortoise house with coco, cypress mulch and reptabark substrate. They have a couple of sphag moisture hideouts. Lighting is a tube UVB and a CHE for heat. In their enclosed portion of the house, they have a heating pad mounted on the lid. Temps stay in the 80's. I spray in the mornings and have a fogger timed a few times a day.

My only concern is that these buggers love to sleep and hide, they'll nibble at food after a nice soaking outside, but not much. I've tried soaked Mazuri pellets, worms and crickets, their salads that I mix... Different combos and I can't seem to get them to eat much.

I am moving from SoCal to San Antonio, TX shortly. Cannot wait for them to grow and have their outdoor enclosure. We'll have a sunroom, so I plan on locating them in there for now.
Just curious. If you knew you were going to move a big distance, why did you buy your babies now instead of waiting until you get to TX? They traveled to get to you to begin with. Now another big move? I get it if the move was sudden & unexpected.
 

tortkief

New Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2021
Messages
9
Location (City and/or State)
CA to SATX
Just curious. If you knew you were going to move a big distance, why did you buy your babies now instead of waiting until you get to TX? They traveled to get to you to begin with. Now another big move? I get it if the move was sudden & unexpected.
I had these hatchlings on hold for quite some time... The home purchase has happened very quickly and suddenly. Thankfully, they'll be in a naturally more humid climate and will have MUCH more space as they grow.
 

Yossarian

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Tortoise Club
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Nov 21, 2015
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764
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Wales
Babies sleep a lot. Leave the food in an area they can get to throughout the day. They will eat, sleep, maybe roam a bit and start over.

And when theyre tiny, it doesnt take much to fill them up.
 

ZenHerper

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Feb 27, 2020
Messages
1,219
Location (City and/or State)
New Jersey
Redfoots have specialized environmental needs...in addition to making sure the overall temps are not too high/too low, and that there is adequate humidity (very hard with the wooden open-top habitats), Redfoots do not like bright lights. They are a tropical forest species that spends most of their time in the shade.

Move the food to a less bright location, and provide more cover for the babies to move between and stay hidden.

Over-handling is very stressful for reptiles (they are not cuddly nor highly social), so leave them in their enclosure for the most part. This is especially necessary for babies...choose two specific times of day for soaking and wellness checks that will give you an opportunity to make sure they are doing OK while providing a predictable schedule and freedom for them.

Once hatchlings are old enough to leave the breeding facility, they begin to develop their territorial and dominance traits. Provide a second feeding station so that they do not have to get face-to-face while eating. Forced confrontation is stressful and may cause reluctance to eat.
 

tortkief

New Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2021
Messages
9
Location (City and/or State)
CA to SATX
Redfoots have specialized environmental needs...in addition to making sure the overall temps are not too high/too low, and that there is adequate humidity (very hard with the wooden open-top habitats), Redfoots do not like bright lights. They are a tropical forest species that spends most of their time in the shade.

Move the food to a less bright location, and provide more cover for the babies to move between and stay hidden.

Over-handling is very stressful for reptiles (they are not cuddly nor highly social), so leave them in their enclosure for the most part. This is especially necessary for babies...choose two specific times of day for soaking and wellness checks that will give you an opportunity to make sure they are doing OK while providing a predictable schedule and freedom for them.

Once hatchlings are old enough to leave the breeding facility, they begin to develop their territorial and dominance traits. Provide a second feeding station so that they do not have to get face-to-face while eating. Forced confrontation is stressful and may cause reluctance to eat.

Great reply... I appreciate it. I did change the heat bulb to a CHE a few days ago - due to the amount of light it was putting out. I'll take a video/pics of updates when I get home. They do have a moist cave and the covered side of the ZooMed tortoise house.

Only time I handle is to bring them outside to soak and feed.
 

Cherryshell

Active Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
94
Location (City and/or State)
Manassas Virginia
You may have to build two enclosures as torts, regardless of species, shouldn't be kept in pairs. I realize RFs can be kept in groups but the minimum size would be 3 and it would need to be a mff combo. Also as humid as San Antonio may get at times, RFs are a tropical species and need a humidity level of 85-90%+ especially when they are hatchlings.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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I had a similar issue. Without planning it to work this way, some of the purple wandering jew in the enclosure grew over the feeding tile. They would sit among those leaves and eat the prepared salad along with some of the leaves. I think they found security by sitting among the plant's leaves.

I then noticed a similar better feeding response from some flat tailed spider tortoises when I crowded thier enclosure with magnolia leaves. They would find the food and eat much more.

I think small tortoises are more wary, and cover while eating is helpful.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
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Jan 9, 2010
Messages
53,763
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Hello everybody!

New owner to a pair of Red-Foot hatchlings from Kamp Kenan.
They are in a tortoise house with coco, cypress mulch and reptabark substrate. They have a couple of sphag moisture hideouts. Lighting is a tube UVB and a CHE for heat. In their enclosed portion of the house, they have a heating pad mounted on the lid. Temps stay in the 80's. I spray in the mornings and have a fogger timed a few times a day.

My only concern is that these buggers love to sleep and hide, they'll nibble at food after a nice soaking outside, but not much. I've tried soaked Mazuri pellets, worms and crickets, their salads that I mix... Different combos and I can't seem to get them to eat much.

I am moving from SoCal to San Antonio, TX shortly. Cannot wait for them to grow and have their outdoor enclosure. We'll have a sunroom, so I plan on locating them in there for now.
Sorry man. Time to kill your buzz. You've made some bad decisions based on some bad advice and you need to know about it. I could sit here and say nothing, and you'd figure all this out on your own eventually, but at a terrible cost to the tortoises. Here's your list:
1. Bad source. Kenan doesn't do tortoises rights and then tells others how to also do it wrong. Not good.
2. Tortoises should never be kept in pairs. Yours need to be separated.
3. Wrong enclosure. Open topped enclosures don't work for species that need warm him conditions. You need a closed chamber.
4. Wooden enclosure don't work for tortoises that need damp conditions. It will soon rot, and/or leak.You need an expanded PVC enclosure.
5. Wrong species for your climate, and for the climate you are moving to. They need high humidity and mildly warm temps 24/7/365. Its too dry in SoCal and much too hot and dry in San Antonio. You've got a tough and very expensive road ahead of you if you are going to try and keep these babies long term. It will not be easy in those climates.
6. Humidifiers shouldn't be used with tortoises. Breathing water droplets is not good. Humidity should be achieved by containing your evaporated dampness in a closed chamber.
7. Moss shouldn't be used. It does nothing and is an impaction hazard.
8. A moist cave is likley to result in shell rot. These guys need high humidity, but chronic dampness on the plastron will easily cause shell rot. Again, the solution is a large closed chamber. Dry substrate, but high humidity.

There. I said my peace. You can argue, fuss, and fight about it as much as you want, but these thing won't change, and you'll see what I mean as time goes by. I'm just trying to help you learn these things faster for the benefit of the baby tortoises.
 

tortkief

New Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2021
Messages
9
Location (City and/or State)
CA to SATX
Sorry man. Time to kill your buzz. You've made some bad decisions based on some bad advice and you need to know about it. I could sit here and say nothing, and you'd figure all this out on your own eventually, but at a terrible cost to the tortoises. Here's your list:
1. Bad source. Kenan doesn't do tortoises rights and then tells others how to also do it wrong. Not good.
2. Tortoises should never be kept in pairs. Yours need to be separated.
3. Wrong enclosure. Open topped enclosures don't work for species that need warm him conditions. You need a closed chamber.
4. Wooden enclosure don't work for tortoises that need damp conditions. It will soon rot, and/or leak.You need an expanded PVC enclosure.
5. Wrong species for your climate, and for the climate you are moving to. They need high humidity and mildly warm temps 24/7/365. Its too dry in SoCal and much too hot and dry in San Antonio. You've got a tough and very expensive road ahead of you if you are going to try and keep these babies long term. It will not be easy in those climates.
6. Humidifiers shouldn't be used with tortoises. Breathing water droplets is not good. Humidity should be achieved by containing your evaporated dampness in a closed chamber.
7. Moss shouldn't be used. It does nothing and is an impaction hazard.
8. A moist cave is likley to result in shell rot. These guys need high humidity, but chronic dampness on the plastron will easily cause shell rot. Again, the solution is a large closed chamber. Dry substrate, but high humidity.

There. I said my peace. You can argue, fuss, and fight about it as much as you want, but these thing won't change, and you'll see what I mean as time goes by. I'm just trying to help you learn these things faster for the benefit of the baby tortoises.
No I completely appreciate it. I did contact Mark for his smart enclosures. I’ll most likely set up next month when I move into the new home.
 

ZEROPILOT

REDFOOT WRANGLER
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Jul 16, 2014
Messages
23,958
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South Eastern Florida (U.S.A.)/Rock Hill S.C.
I'm very happy that you are so willing to listen to the good advise you've been given here.
Much of Keenans success comes down to dumb luck: This south Florida climate.
And I'm more than a little horrified that he takes in Rescue tortoises. Then crams them all together into forced mating...And profits off of selling the babies.
What is his REAL objective?
Seems pretty obvious to me.
 

newCH

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5 Year Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2014
Messages
520
Location (City and/or State)
So.FL
Just a thought but you might find they eat more by chopping up the greens & grating the carrot.
 

tortkief

New Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2021
Messages
9
Location (City and/or State)
CA to SATX
Just a thought but you might find they eat more by chopping up the greens & grating the carrot.
I’ll shred the carrot! They love the squash, cucumber and greens. I’ve given a strawberry a couple times, today was solely soaked mazuri.
 

tortkief

New Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2021
Messages
9
Location (City and/or State)
CA to SATX
I'm very happy that you are so willing to listen to the good advise you've been given here.
Much of Keenans success comes down to dumb luck: This south Florida climate.
And I'm more than a little horrified that he takes in Rescue tortoises. Then crams them all together into forced mating...And profits off of selling the babies.
What is his REAL objective?
Seems pretty obvious to me.
Definitely. It’s about the animals, what’s best for them.
 
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