just "rescued" russian from craigslist need advice

[elizabeth_leeman]

Hello, I just purchased my first tortoise from CL. He is a 4 yr old Russian tort. He is my first tortoise but I have done my research and can tell everything is wrong!

The first thing I noticed was his misshapen shell. It is skirted around the edges and turns down above his tail. His nails are overgrown and weirdly thick and rounded. His eyes are sunken and white/grey. The lower part of his beak is overgrown.

I feel horrible for him! I have been soaking him in warm water. When he first came I soaked him for an hour. Now I'm doing fifteen min.

I was mortified when his previous owner told me he was feeding him frozen mixed vegetables and fruit! His whole life! That's corn, peas, green beans and carrots. I gave him some yesterday just because he wouldn't eat any grasses, lettuce, dandilions or carrots. I took out the corn because that seemed the worst. He ate the greenbeans and peas.

Today he is staying outside and I caught him trying to munch some lettuce but his overgrown beak won't let him break any off. So I took all the lettuce (romane and the purple kind) along with a bit of carrot, some grass (most likely fescue out here) and dandelion and made a minced salad for him.

He has been rubbing his beak and head on the bricks in his makeshift pen. Is he trying to correct them? Are all his deformities from his poor diet? What else should I do? He peed a little for the first time in three days and he hasnt pooped. It was normal. He was also painted lime green and orange.

 

[kimber_lee_314]

His beak is overgrown, but his shell doesn't look bad. You can have his beak trimmed a little if it helps him eat. Otherwise keep feeding him on the brick paver. It sounds like you're doing all you can for him now. Just give him some time to settle in. Good luck!

 

[elizabeth_leeman]

I wonder how much that would cost. But his shell does not look like Any normal russian's shell have seen.

 

[Lulu]

My vet only charges about $12 for a beak trim, but that's on top of whatever the visit fee is. His shell does not look that unusual to me, but it's hard to tell from a picture. There's a little uneven growth maybe, but I've seen a lot of males with that little skirt area. An overgrown beak and nails can be signs of mbd in adult russians, but most do pretty well with a good diet and UV.

You can do a little filing on the beak yourself. Larger scale, people do it with a dremel, but you can probably take a file to it. Some people also use nail clippers. Just go slowly and take a little at a time. You can also provide a cuttlebone, which may help some. Also, although carrot should not be part of a daily diet, a carrot that hasn't been cut down and that he has to work at may also help.

Don't worry too much. He doesn't look so bad. Try mixing in some greens with his other stuff and gradually reduce the other stuff. Russians don't typically like grass, so don't worry if he doesn't eat that. Broadleafed weeds and greens are what he should be eating. Try leaving some out for him and he will probably eat it when the other stuff isn't in front of him.

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

Not a very good diet, no.

Actually, his shell is pretty normal. That down-turned caudal scute and the flared marginals over the legs are about right - maybe a bit exaggerated in their curve, but not much.

The problem is with the mouth. His beak protrudes forward, and he may have an underbite, too. So, not only is his beak overgrown (which can be corrected by trimming and normal wear), but there seems to be an indication of MBD (metabolic bone disease). In that case, not just the keratinous beak, but even the underlying bone may be somewhat misshapen. That may indicate that the bone in the rest of his skeleton might not be dense enough, either.

You can't reverse any disfigurement that has happened so far, but you can keep it from getting worse, and with the right husbandry, you can restore healthy bone density. Fortunately, it doesn't look like his MBD is particularly bad. His shell and limbs seem sound, and once his beak is trimmed, his face might be close to normal.

Obviously, he needs a warm, spacious enclosure with a nice basking spot and moist substrate. He needs some time outdoors, which I'm glad to see you are providing. As for his diet, he needs leafy greens (and Mazuri, if you wish), supplemented with calcium and vitamin D3. You may also add other vitamins.

You did a good thing by rescuing him from his previous keepers, who obviously didn't know how to care for him properly. He is a bit of a fixer-upper, but as I said, he's not that far gone and should be fine with a new regimen, especially a good diet.

 

[tyrs4u]

RE: just "rescued" russian from craigslist need advice

Omg the poor Russians beak. Yes I'd get him/her trimmed. Youll see an increase in diet aftwrwards. Its normal. As they barely eat because of bad beaks...

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Elizabeth:

Welcome to the Tortoise Forum!!

Aren't tortoises smart? He knows that he has to polish up his beak and so he rubs it on the cement. He has what we call duck bill. It can be filed down until it has a better bite. I took in a male Russian with a worse duck bill than your tortoise's earlier this year. After I filed it down to where it should be, top and bottom, it didn't meet in the middle anymore. The top beak was shaped like it should be...the bottom was shaped like it should be, however, because they had both been growing outward instead of downward and upward, he now had a space in the middle that you could stick a small sipping straw through. So for the past few months I've had to chop up his food into tiny, tiny pieces so he could eat. I picked him up yesterday and looked at his beak and I can now stop chopping up his food. The beak has grown like it should be.

So, it would be faster if you have a vet file his beak, but by him scraping it daily on the cement, it will also do the trick, but just take longer.

On another note, I think your tortoise was wild caught, so the 4 yr old bogey isn't true. He looks more along the lines of 8 or 10 years...and almost full grown.

May we know appx. where in the world you are?

 

[elizabeth_leeman]

Oh, sorry. I am in the united states. Missouri to be exact. I was just assuming they got him from petco. Sulcatas, red and yellow foots, and russians are easy to get. Anything else you can order off the internet anymore. I can ask the guy I got him from.

Thanks everyone for your advice and reassurance. I tend to completely flip out about things like this. Ill have to take a picture of his shell from the top. He also walks funny and exaggerates his movements, like he isn't quite sure. I'm thinking he was kept in something slick. I hope I can get him closer to normal.

I think I got him hydrated. His eyes were really sunken in and much paler yesterday.

 

[elizabeth_leeman]

Aren't tortoises smart? He knows that he has to polish up his beak and so he rubs it on the cement.


I thought this was AMAZING when I saw him doing it! I thought for a second he might just be special or something. But he kept on scraping the bottom beak on the bricks. There are black marks all over it. It was the first thing he did! I need to get to the store to get the cuttlebone.

 

[lynnedit]

You have had good advice in this thread.
A beak trim by a vet would be nice and more efficient (and you would worry less), but even his scraping away and you filing gently with a nail file will help over 1-2 weeks or so. He will do fine otherwise, he is a survivor.
The nice thing about taking him to a reptile vet (not just any vet, but one that specializes in reptiles), is that they can do a fecal check to make sure there is not a high parasite load. However, once his beak is trimmed, if his appetite and functions are healthy and he is active, even that may not be an issue.

I adopted a male RT off of CL last year who had been fed off of romaine lettuce and canned green beans for 3 years. Fish aquarium with no basking area. Dry reptile bark. His first poop looked like clay (not to be too graphic, lol). His beak and nails were very overgrown. He has done well.
They are amazing creatures.

 

[Lulu]

Oh, sorry. I am in the united states. Missouri to be exact. I was just assuming they got him from petco. Sulcatas, red and yellow foots, and russians are easy to get. Anything else you can order off the internet anymore. I can ask the guy I got him from.

Thanks everyone for your advice and reassurance. I tend to completely flip out about things like this. Ill have to take a picture of his shell from the top. He also walks funny and exaggerates his movements, like he isn't quite sure. I'm thinking he was kept in something slick. I hope I can get him closer to normal.

I think I got him hydrated. His eyes were really sunken in and much paler yesterday.

They probably got him from Petco. Petco routinely states that their russians are "juveniles," about "six months old." They are usually much older than that when caught.

He probably does have some problems, but russians are very hardy and resilient tortoises. A funny walk and a little bit of a draggy back end is consistent with MBD. Sunlight and calcium are the fix, with water always available to help the kidneys over the effects of the MBD. He may always look a little funny (i.e., have a little overbite and a bit of a waddle), but he'll most likely thrive on good care.

Good on you for taking him. I'm sure he'll do fine. Look into a vet visit because a beak trim is usually quite cheap, and a fecal sample for parasites is often a good idea. Just don't let the vet give your tortoise a vitamin A injection, as they are not well tolerated and his kidneys do not need to deal with extra supplements right now anyway.

 

[bigred]

His shell doesnt look bad, I think he will be fine now that you have him

 

[CLMoss]

What a face! A little TLC, and he will be a beauty.

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

...He also walks funny and exaggerates his movements, like he isn't quite sure. I'm thinking he was kept in something slick. I hope I can get him closer to normal.

...A funny walk and a little bit of a draggy back end is consistent with MBD. Sunlight and calcium are the fix, with water always available to help the kidneys over the effects of the MBD. He may always look a little funny (i.e., have a little overbite and a bit of a waddle), but he'll most likely thrive on good care.

Agreed. The same low-bone density that gives him a protruding beak is probably also causing his limbs to be a bit weak. He can improve in time with proper diet, calcium, vitamin D3, and time outdoors, though.

...Just don't let the vet give your tortoise a vitamin A injection, as they are not well tolerated and his kidneys do not need to deal with extra supplements right now anyway.

Again, I agree. You can offer vitamin supplements on his food, because it is very hard to overdose on ingested vitamins. However, injected vitamins have been known to cause all sorts of problems, from kidney disease to patches of skin sloughing off. Whatever vitamins you give him, they should be topical or ingested, not injected.

I think I got him hydrated. His eyes were really sunken in and much paler yesterday.

He may well have been quite dehydrated. I'm so glad to know that you are taking the right steps with him.

 

[Utah Lynn]

I totally agree with everything said in this thread. Great save. You stated that you have done your research, so you know to feed him leafy greens that are high in fiber.