Joy of Raising Baby Box Turtles : Can Do it in Canada but not in the States, still ??

[augie1975]

In Canada, you can buy small, recently hatched turtles, then have them shipped to your home overnight. Then have the joy of seeing them grow and change. Does the U.S. still have that law that you cannot sell turtles under 4 inches in length ??

Below, my Three Toed in November 2017, 2 months old, 5.0 cm long and 26 grams ....
then this month 4.5 years later, 13.4 cm long and 446 grams with splashes of red orange and white on his face .. and very recently reddened eyes..

 

[wellington]

Babies are sold all the time in the US.

 

[augie1975]

Babies are sold all the time in the US.

Good

 

[jeff kushner]

Don't feel bad Augie, A lot of people remember that old 4" rule.....I think it was it a response to some salmonella cases in the late 70's.... but I haven't seen any activity which would indicate that it's still in force anywhere, but I had heard of it too.


Our mod was just giving you the quick facts.....they got stuff to do too<LOL>


I love that you sense, and appreciate the freedoms that you enjoy but consider that it in a lot of places, things are legal but not possible. See what I mean? Just a different view of "the glass" if you follow me.

Trust me, you could legally do horrible things to people in some countries I've been to within 10hrs on a jet, but few could deliver a captive-bred turtle from a pet store. See what I mean? Not that it isn't legal, just ain't happening.

We are both very lucky....just lucky that we grew up where we did and thanks for clearing up the weird gut-feeling I got about your female on the dowels.

 

[augie1975]

Don't feel bad Augie, A lot of people remember that old 4" rule.....I think it was it a response to some salmonella cases in the late 70's.... but I haven't seen any activity which would indicate that it's still in force anywhere, but I had heard of it too.


Our mod was just giving you the quick facts.....they got stuff to do too<LOL>


I love that you sense, and appreciate the freedoms that you enjoy but consider that it in a lot of places, things are legal but not possible. See what I mean? Just a different view of "the glass" if you follow me.

Trust me, you could legally do horrible things to people in some countries I've been to within 10hrs on a jet, but few could deliver a captive-bred turtle from a pet store. See what I mean? Not that it isn't legal, just ain't happening.

We are both very lucky....just lucky that we grew up where we did and thanks for clearing up the weird gut-feeling I got about your female on the dowels.

Different places different times. The Salmonella scare changed alot of things everywhere. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Tom]

Don't feel bad Augie, A lot of people remember that old 4" rule.....I think it was it a response to some salmonella cases in the late 70's.... but I haven't seen any activity which would indicate that it's still in force anywhere, but I had heard of it too.


Our mod was just giving you the quick facts.....they got stuff to do too<LOL>


I love that you sense, and appreciate the freedoms that you enjoy but consider that it in a lot of places, things are legal but not possible. See what I mean? Just a different view of "the glass" if you follow me.

Trust me, you could legally do horrible things to people in some countries I've been to within 10hrs on a jet, but few could deliver a captive-bred turtle from a pet store. See what I mean? Not that it isn't legal, just ain't happening.

We are both very lucky....just lucky that we grew up where we did and thanks for clearing up the weird gut-feeling I got about your female on the dowels.

The salmonella cases were in the 60s. The law started in '74.

The rule is very much in place and randomly enforced when they feel like it. The federal law specifically exempts "hobby breeders", but some state laws do not. CA, for example, grants exemptions for research and educational purposes, but does not exclude "hobby breeders".

This ridiculous law was aimed at the commercial turtles farming industry. Richard Fife, and several others have been petitioning the government and working toward having the unjust law modified or stricken entirely.

In Canada, you can buy small, recently hatched turtles, then have them shipped to your home overnight. Then have the joy of seeing them grow and change. Does the U.S. still have that law that you cannot sell turtles under 4 inches in length?

We can breed and hatch our own, or receive them as gifts, or in some cases in some states, it is legal to sell them if you are not a commercial breeder. A few states ban possession because they are native and they don't want people over collecting. In most cases, we can find a legal way to enjoy them here in the states too.

 

[augie1975]

The salmonella cases were in the 60s. The law started in '74.

The rule is very much in place and randomly enforced when they feel like it. The federal law specifically exempts "hobby breeders", but some state laws do not. CA, for example, grants exemptions for research and educational purposes, but does not exclude "hobby breeders".

This ridiculous law was aimed at the commercial turtles farming industry. Richard Fife, and several others have been petitioning the government and working toward having the unjust law modified or stricken entirely.

We can breed and hatch our own, or receive them as gifts, or in some cases in some states, it is legal to sell them if you are not a commercial breeder. A few states ban possession because they are native and they don't want people over collecting. In most cases, we can find a legal way to enjoy them here in the states too.

Thank you for the info . The law, it seems to me, encourages the sale of wild-caught adults rather than promoting conservation. But thankfully there are ways around it.

 

[Tom]

Thank you for the info . The law, it seems to me, encourages the sale of wild-caught adults rather than promoting conservation. But thankfully there are ways around it.

A lot of the wildlife laws on the books make no sense at all if your goal is to help wildlife. They begin to make perfect sense when you realize the goal is NOT helping wildlife, but eradicating freedom.

 

[Cathie G]

A lot of the wildlife laws on the books make no sense at all if your goal is to help wildlife. They begin to make perfect sense when you realize the goal is NOT helping wildlife, but eradicating freedom.

Yes it doesn't make sense what they say and the laws they pass aren't really thought out at all. Animals actually do have a hard time in the wild. Their life expectancy from loss of habitat alone is so sad. That's not even mentioning mother nature's whims. It's too bad more support isn't given to people that are trying to help them. Even if it's just lip service or at the least education. Instead the powers that be sit around and think up laws to prosecute. I'm sure that there's a lot less "born free" animals then there used to be and it's not just poaching that did this. They need our help.

 

[augie1975]

Box turtles [and others] on a steep decline ... legislators not wanting to help but wanting to appear to be helping. Sad.

 

[Mrs.Jennifer]

Unfortunately, people really believe that the laws are targeting this behavior, and don’t truly understand the wider ramifications of them:

California man caught with dozens of lizards in his clothes is charged with smuggling 1,700 reptiles

He was arrested after attempting to cross the border while hiding 60 reptiles in his jacket and pants pockets as well as his groin area and pant legs, officials said.

bangordailynews.com

The ripple effect is not anticipated or understood by undereducated legislators.

 

[augie1975]

Poaching has decimated native species in our area .

https://ontarioturtle.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/OTCC-Brochure-Poaching.pdf