Is this safe to feed? Yeah I think there are dumb questions out there, this one is pretty close.

[Kapidolo Farms]

I am not intending to step on toes, but that doesn't take into account glass emotion enclosures.

By "safe" I figure you mean without any -cides (herbicide, insecticide, pesticide). In part why I embrace the use of organic foods and food stuffs. NonGMO is half way there, many GMO have been made to tolerate -cides so that spraying -cides can go forward unabated. That's not good. Organic also reduces the overall burden on the soil, air, and water, of -cides. This safe is entirely based on your work to 'vet' the source.

By 'safe' I figure you mean that the secondary compounds and anti-nutrients do not make the food of a poor choice. On this account the tortoise table grossly misses the point of wide variety. On this safe the preponderance of wrong/miss-information is crazy high, I'll continue my own search for the dogma out there.

If these two 'safe' standards are met, it's safe to feed? Oh wait, what about the protein content (the array of amino acids), water content, effective C: P ratio, fiber (all three forms), and other things like vitamins, essential fats, and minerals.

Does the tortoise seem to act like it, does it tastes good, is it 'fun' for the tortoise to eat, these behavioral enrichment concepts are important too, and there is not chart or look-up table for them. This regard suffers from much keeper projection, that is, if you think you ought to have a donut/glass of wine as a personal reward for some behavior or task accomplishment of your own, you want to share the momentary joy and give your tortoise a bit of banana or strawberry - you know as a treat. Sort out treats that don't become a food choice with secondary compounds (high sugar content).

I know it's a difficult task, but see if you can find out what the species you have eats in the wild. That has alot of safe in it.

This is all is confusing, I'll just ask, "is this safe to feed." There is an actual safe exposure to plutonium, like crazy yeah? Safe is not a very good word for the interest to know is this a 'good food'. Sorta like when people say "do no evil", that's a low bar, how about do some good! Is this food good, why is it good, what is it's primary good nutrient feature? Water content, fiber profile, C: P ratio, - why is it good?

With a few primary ingredients from a yard or grocery store, a wide range of small amounts of many many other things make a good variable diet. VARIETY covers most issue without too much complicated math to sort out sufficient amounts of this or that nutrient. And remember WATER is the most important thing your tortoise consumes, even though it's not on any nutrient list.

Like I mention, not seeking to step on toes, but frankly 'safe' is the low bar for food item selection.

 

[Zoeclare]

Very good points even though I had to read this 3 times for it to sink in! I do think though sometimes owners (especially new owners) just want some reassurance that their new baby isn't going to keel over because of some toxic plant they've accidentally offered! Also, as a new owner its exciting to get out there foraging, learning which plants are "good" etc i think learning WHY those plants are good comes with time.

 

[Cathie G]

I am not intending to step on toes, but that doesn't take into account glass emotion enclosures.

By "safe" I figure you mean without any -cides (herbicide, insecticide, pesticide). In part why I embrace the use of organic foods and food stuffs. NonGMO is half way there, many GMO have been made to tolerate -cides so that spraying -cides can go forward unabated. That's not good. Organic also reduces the overall burden on the soil, air, and water, of -cides. This safe is entirely based on your work to 'vet' the source.

By 'safe' I figure you mean that the secondary compounds and anti-nutrients do not make the food of a poor choice. On this account the tortoise table grossly misses the point of wide variety. On this safe the preponderance of wrong/miss-information is crazy high, I'll continue my own search for the dogma out there.

If these two 'safe' standards are met, it's safe to feed? Oh wait, what about the protein content (the array of amino acids), water content, effective C: P ratio, fiber (all three forms), and other things like vitamins, essential fats, and minerals.

Does the tortoise seem to act like it, does it tastes good, is it 'fun' for the tortoise to eat, these behavioral enrichment concepts are important too, and there is not chart or look-up table for them. This regard suffers from much keeper projection, that is, if you think you ought to have a donut/glass of wine as a personal reward for some behavior or task accomplishment of your own, you want to share the momentary joy and give your tortoise a bit of banana or strawberry - you know as a treat. Sort out treats that don't become a food choice with secondary compounds (high sugar content).

I know it's a difficult task, but see if you can find out what the species you have eats in the wild. That has alot of safe in it.

This is all is confusing, I'll just ask, "is this safe to feed." There is an actual safe exposure to plutonium, like crazy yeah? Safe is not a very good word for the interest to know is this a 'good food'. Sorta like when people say "do no evil", that's a low bar, how about do some good! Is this food good, why is it good, what is it's primary good nutrient feature? Water content, fiber profile, C: P ratio, - why is it good?

With a few primary ingredients from a yard or grocery store, a wide range of small amounts of many many other things make a good variable diet. VARIETY covers most issue without too much complicated math to sort out sufficient amounts of this or that nutrient. And remember WATER is the most important thing your tortoise consumes, even though it's not on any nutrient list.

Like I mention, not seeking to step on toes, but frankly 'safe' is the low bar for food item selection.

Hybrids bug me too.?

 

[K8E K]

Yeah, the intended question is really most often "is this plant toxic". There's always nuance and "further reading", but that's true for everything.

 

[RosemaryDW]

Like I mention, not seeking to step on toes, but frankly 'safe' is the low bar for food item selection.

One hundred percent agree but believe it is always going to be asking a big leap of faith from new (and some experienced) owners.

 

[Tom]

General public: Is this snake poisonous?
Me: No. No snake is poisonous. You can eat any of them.

General public: Is this spider poisonous?
Me: You mean venomous, and yes, ALL spiders are venomous.

General public: Does that (fill in the bank)_______ bite?
Me: Anything with a mouth can bite.

General public: Your a real d**K Tom. {Walks away...}

 

[Zoeclare]

I totally agree with the content its just the title of the thread I take umbrage with, maybe thats me being a snowflake but I don't think people should feel 'dumb for asking questions about what plants to feed. If people couldn't ask and get advice and reassurance there would most likely be a lot more tortoises living on lettuce because its easy and 'safe'.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Those three kinds of fiber, what, you mean fiber isn't fiber?

Fiber is (your tortoise) experienced in three ways (actual in just one dimension, there are other dimensions of fiber (no, not space/time travel dimensions).

There is fiber that the digestive process breaks down with your own digestive enzymes. That is often called Neutral Detergent Fiber (NDF). A strange re-use of the NDF, to me, I remember by thinking of it as Naturally Digested Fiber.
Then there is Acid Digested Fiber (ADF) which is characterized by the fiber that the gut micro-biome flora/fauna digest. There is a population of microbes that primarily resides in the large intestine/colon/cecum (lots of word for more or less the same stuff).

The micro-biome of things needs a substrate to live on, and that is the last of the fiber, totally indigestible stuff. Most often this is lignin, the veins you see when the rest of the leaf has decomposed away.

One of those other dimensions is is that the greater the range of fiber particle size, the great the range and better balanced the micro-biome. Variety in diet - once again.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

I grew up with the concept that my feelings are my responsibility, and when some are thrust upon me, how I deal with it is a greater responsibility. My primary interpretation when someone shows a blurry image and asks if 'it's safe' is they are somewhat lazy. I get not re-inventing the wheel, even an out of focus plant part may find a solid ID. My point is, it's the 'low bar' question. Like 'do no evil' - a correlation I made in the OP. Do better, seek to find out if not only is the plant 'safe' but actually has some positive benefit.

If you know that plant by any name, do the work, and find the latin name. 'Plantain' for example describes a nursery store name for Hosta, a grocery store name for a banana, and a weed name. But if you use google, Yvonne's friend, and type in 'plantain wiki' you will find a disambiguation (what plantain do you mean?) response. Do some little leg work to help those who will help you.

How many examples of how to sort this out have I done in the thread https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/w...ry-and-garden-published-nutrient-list.161833/ for people to follow. I think those that have posted their own discovery are few, if not just one or two.

The title is provocative to get your attention, BTW.

I totally agree with the content its just the title of the thread I take umbrage with, maybe thats me being a snowflake but I don't think people should feel 'dumb for asking questions about what plants to feed. If people couldn't ask and get advice and reassurance there would most likely be a lot more tortoises living on lettuce because its easy and 'safe'.

 

[Zoeclare]

I grew up with the concept that my feelings are my responsibility, and when some are thrust upon me, how I deal with it is a greater responsibility. My primary interpretation when someone shows a blurry image and asks if 'it's safe' is they are somewhat lazy. I get not re-inventing the wheel, even an out of focus plant part may find a solid ID. My point is, it's the 'low bar' question. Like 'do no evil' - a correlation I made in the OP. Do better, seek to find out if not only is the plant 'safe' but actually has some positive benefit.

If you know that plant by any name, do the work, and find the latin name. 'Plantain' for example describes a nursery store name for Hosta, a grocery store name for a banana, and a weed name. But if you use google, Yvonne's friend, and type in 'plantain wiki' you will find a disambiguation (what plantain do you mean?) response. Do some little leg work to help those who will help you.

How many examples of how to sort this out have I done in the thread https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/w...ry-and-garden-published-nutrient-list.161833/ for people to follow. I think those that have posted their own discovery are few, if not just one or two.

The title is provocative to get your attention, BTW.

I understand that the title is intended to garner attention i just don't like that new members typing "is this safe to feed" in the search bar could potentially get a result saying they are dumb for asking.

 

[Blackdog1714]

Very good points even though I had to read this 3 times for it to sink in! I do think though sometimes owners (especially new owners) just want some reassurance that their new baby isn't going to keel over because of some toxic plant they've accidentally offered! Also, as a new owner its exciting to get out there foraging, learning which plants are "good" etc i think learning WHY those plants are good comes with time.

I did you get it to sink in? For me it was like try to catch a bottle rocket with your hands- except for the glass emotion enclosure?

 

[Maggie3fan]

I totally agree with the content its just the title of the thread I take umbrage with, maybe thats me being a snowflake but I don't think people should feel 'dumb for asking questions about what plants to feed. If people couldn't ask and get advice and reassurance there would most likely be a lot more tortoises living on lettuce because its easy and 'safe'.

Oh for crying out loud. Remember the phrase...you can't please everyone all the time. I was attracted by the title. I don't read Williams stuff for reasons that are private, but I read this post, twice, the first time was because of the title, and the second because the thread was interesting. This is not a perfect world but it might be better if people did not expect to be handed so much without earning it. I am not an expert in chelonia keeping, I do not spend much time on the Internet, I don't keep exotic animals, but even I can find whatever weed it is on the 'Net and make a decision based on my own research. And because I hate doing crap like that you can bet that I will remember whatever it was, so I don't have to look it up again.
Newbies would remember stuff and be better keepers if they'd just do some research themselves. In fact, I believe TFO has a list of edibles.
I very recently privately asked 2 of the members that I respect about a water turtle problem I'm having with a rescue. So it's not that I am objecting about asking, but I had spent an unknown amount of time and was not satisfied with my research, but that research led me to knowing what I needed to ask.
Oh and btw, when I read the thread title I laughed. All things are NOT created equal

 

[Yvonne G]

@Kapidolo Farms - There's a volunteer stinging nettle growing in one of my hatchling vivs. Edible? Toxic? Dangerous to the babies? Leave it? Yank it?

 

[Markw84]

@Kapidolo Farms - There's a volunteer stinging nettle growing in one of my hatchling vivs. Edible? Toxic? Dangerous to the babies? Leave it? Yank it?

ALL my tortoises love stinging nettle. Just fed a huge garbage bag full to my Galaps.

 

[Tom]

@Kapidolo Farms - There's a volunteer stinging nettle growing in one of my hatchling vivs. Edible? Toxic? Dangerous to the babies? Leave it? Yank it?

I remember reading that it was a good tortoise food, but I have no experience with it, and I'm not sure which species, or which several species, are being referred to. Kind of like sedum. Some are safe for torts to eat and offer benefits, and some are toxic, like brown bean sedum, for one example.

@Rodriguez Chelonians might have some insight to share on stinging nettle as tortoise food.