is this a CH tort or RF?

[evlinLoutries]

sorry guys, I need accurate information from all of u, cause when I bought this tort, the seller said that it is a Cherry Head tort, and now, many many ppl said that it is Red Foot..

so, what's your opinion?

thanks, and what about it sex? male or female?

thanks a lot..

 

[cdmay]

Cherry heads are one of at least four regional variants of red-footed tortoises that are most likely separate subspecies. They come from a specific part of eastern Brazil and are usually pretty distinct.
The young animal in your photos has the characteristics of a cherry head but it also seems to have a northern red-footed tortoise look to it. Being a captive bred tortoise it is very possibly a mix between the two.
It is still a bit young to tell for sure but right now it looks like a female.

 

[mattk]

Very nice looking tort.

 

[evlinLoutries]

Cherry heads are one of at least four regional variants of red-footed tortoises that are most likely separate subspecies. They come from a specific part of eastern Brazil and are usually pretty distinct.
The young animal in your photos has the characteristics of a cherry head but it also seems to have a northern red-footed tortoise look to it. Being a captive bred tortoise it is very possibly a mix between the two.
It is still a bit young to tell for sure but right now it looks like a female.

so, what am I supposed to do? or can't u judge it is a CH or RF?

I'm guessing that it was male, lol..

 

[tyler0912]

I'd Say RF!

 

[evlinLoutries]

I'd Say RF!

what about its sex?

and rf(m or f) can be cross mating with ch(m or f)?

 

[jareeed2]

Id say the sex is to young to tell.. What is he 4 inches maybe 5? Once the little guy starts growing he should develop some traits that will define it as male or female.. Id say u got a half cheery head half northern

 

[DixieParadise]

I see a lot of characteristics of a CH. I agree it might be to early to sex, but I am guessing female. Cute face though. Are you just asking what your Tort is or is there a problem that it could be mixed?

 

[mattk]

can anyone tell what are the characteristics of a northern i am curious.

 

[evlinLoutries]

Id say the sex is to young to tell.. What is he 4 inches maybe 5? Once the little guy starts growing he should develop some traits that will define it as male or female.. Id say u got a half cheery head half northern

its 11cm up..

so a hybrid u think? don't hybrid get a short life??

---

I see a lot of characteristics of a CH. I agree it might be to early to sex, but I am guessing female. Cute face though. Are you just asking what your Tort is or is there a problem that it could be mixed?

what part that shows u it is a CH?

and why u guessing she is she?

 

[Yvonne G]

First of all, a Cherry Head IS a redfoot. Its a regional thing. What is your concern? The care is the same for both.

 

[evlinLoutries]

First of all, a Cherry Head IS a redfoot. Its a regional thing. What is your concern? The care is the same for both.

Yeah, I know that Ch is red foot..

I just want to make a clear to the seller, cause he said it was CH, but if it is not CH, I'm going asking him to explain to me..

So they can mating each other without saying hybrid (hatchling)?

 

[EricIvins]

Its not a Cherryhead.........

However, it's more than likely from a Southern population, not the typical Surinam/Guyana you usually see........

This animal pictured could easily pass for a Cherryhead, even to some of the educated Tortoise Keepers.........2nd picture is a comparison between a Cherryhead.......I don't know what locale these are from, but they are cool Northerns, but again, not the typical Northern Shield Redfoots........

 

[Redstrike]

Mark hasn't chimed in here yet, but he has a comprehensive (and well researched) discussion of the regional variations for RF tortoises as a species:

http://www.tortoiselibrary.com/aboutrf2.html

Concerning Cherryheads specifically:
http://www.tortoiselibrary.com/easternrf.html

Your tort has the dark shell of a cherryhead, but lacks the bright red markings on the face/neck - though the orange is absolutely beautiful! You have a nice looking Redfoot there.

 

[tortoise-kid]

I would for sure say a Red Foot because of the torts head.

 

[Kristina]

You do realize that Cherryheads ARE Redfoots, right? They are the same species. Cherryheads are simply one of the locales (Also called Brazilians.) So yes it is a Redfoot... However, it could be a Cherryhead Redfoot.

 

[evlinLoutries]

Its not a Cherryhead.........

However, it's more than likely from a Southern population, not the typical Surinam/Guyana you usually see........

This animal pictured could easily pass for a Cherryhead, even to some of the educated Tortoise Keepers.........2nd picture is a comparison between a Cherryhead.......I don't know what locale these are from, but they are cool Northerns, but again, not the typical Northern Shield Redfoots........

Hate that..

I already texting and calling the seller last night, but he is not replying..

Mark hasn't chimed in here yet, but he has a comprehensive (and well researched) discussion of the regional variations for RF tortoises as a species:

http://www.tortoiselibrary.com/aboutrf2.html

Concerning Cherryheads specifically:
http://www.tortoiselibrary.com/easternrf.html

Your tort has the dark shell of a cherryhead, but lacks the bright red markings on the face/neck - though the orange is absolutely beautiful! You have a nice looking Redfoot there.

Then, we need him here..

Just wait..

I would for sure say a Red Foot because of the torts head.

I knew it..

---

You do realize that Cherryheads ARE Redfoots, right? They are the same species. Cherryheads are simply one of the locales (Also called Brazilians.) So yes it is a Redfoot... However, it could be a Cherryhead Redfoot.

I do Kristina,. But cherry heads are not red foots, am I right?

It just about honesty, unfortunately, the seller did not response anything to my call and text..

 

[Redstrike]

Cherryheads are Redfoots, visit Mark's site that i posted up previously. Redfoot tortoises have an expansive range encompassing Central America and most of the northeastern regions of South America, as such, there is wide variability in those populations (regional phenotypic variation). It is likely they are all one species, we just don't have any quantitative/definitive evidence as of yet.

The variation in populations could result in speciation if given enough time and isolation, but I think they're all one species with genetically distinct populations (still same species) occurring throughout the RF's distribution. It is common for species with a wide geographical range to exhibit phenotypic variation across regions.

The Desert tortoise is a great example of this. We have populations occuring in the Sonoran, Chihuahuan, and Mojave deserts. All occur in North America, yet each of the desert tortoise populations found in these deserts looks slightly different (Mojave = light carapace, Sonoran = dark carapace, etc.) They're all the same species, but they're slightly different looking across their entire (and expansive) range. This is due to differences in their environments, but I'm not going to bore you with heritability and evolutionary babble.

 

[Kristina]

You do realize that Cherryheads ARE Redfoots, right? They are the same species. Cherryheads are simply one of the locales (Also called Brazilians.) So yes it is a Redfoot... However, it could be a Cherryhead Redfoot.

I do Kristina,. But cherry heads are not red foots, am I right?

It just about honesty, unfortunately, the seller did not response anything to my call and text..

Cherryheads ARE Redfoots. They are not two separate things. You can have a Redfoot that is not a Cherryhead, but you cannot have a Cherryhead that is not a Redfoot. The species name of a Redfoot is Geochelone carbonaria. The species name of a Cherryhead Redfoot is Geochelone carbonaria. A "Northern" Redfoot comes from the northern part of South America. A "Brazilian" or Cherryhead Redfoot is found mainly in Brazil, also in South America. But they are both REDFOOTS.

 

[evlinLoutries]

Cherryheads are Redfoots, visit Mark's site that i posted up previously. Redfoot tortoises have an expansive range encompassing Central America and most of the northeastern regions of South America, as such, there is wide variability in those populations (regional phenotypic variation). It is likely they are all one species, we just don't have any quantitative/definitive evidence as of yet.

The variation in populations could result in speciation if given enough time and isolation, but I think they're all one species with genetically distinct populations (still same species) occurring throughout the RF's distribution. It is common for species with a wide geographical range to exhibit phenotypic variation across regions.

The Desert tortoise is a great example of this. We have populations occuring in the Sonoran, Chihuahuan, and Mojave deserts. All occur in North America, yet each of the desert tortoise populations found in these deserts looks slightly different (Mojave = light carapace, Sonoran = dark carapace, etc.) They're all the same species, but they're slightly different looking across their entire (and expansive) range. This is due to differences in their environments, but I'm not going to bore you with heritability and evolutionary babble.

I'll visit as soon as my class dismiss..

---

You do realize that Cherryheads ARE Redfoots, right? They are the same species. Cherryheads are simply one of the locales (Also called Brazilians.) So yes it is a Redfoot... However, it could be a Cherryhead Redfoot.

I do Kristina,. But cherry heads are not red foots, am I right?

It just about honesty, unfortunately, the seller did not response anything to my call and text..

Cherryheads ARE Redfoots. They are not two separate things. You can have a Redfoot that is not a Cherryhead, but you cannot have a Cherryhead that is not a Redfoot. The species name of a Redfoot is Geochelone carbonaria. The species name of a Cherryhead Redfoot is Geochelone carbonaria. A "Northern" Redfoot comes from the northern part of South America. A "Brazilian" or Cherryhead Redfoot is found mainly in Brazil, also in South America. But they are both REDFOOTS.

Sorry Kristina, what I mean in my earlier post is, red foots are not cherry heads..

Really sorry, that's just what I wanted to say..