Is my horsfield growing too fast?

[LudusPlus]

Hello.

My horsefield is over 10 years old. He was living with my parents for this whole time until last week when he joined me.

His condition was not good, he was living on fake grass no substrate, basking lamp which was 50 Celsius, eating only lettuce with no supplements the list goes on...

I took him in and he is now on suitable substrate, correct temps and varied diet. I only feed him an amount the size of his shell every day- this is usually kale mixed with some leafy greens. He's tried carrot too to try help his beak growth & I sprinkle on calcium every other feed. Sometimes he does not eat all of his food so I throw it out.

I noticed this huge white line around his entire shell today while he was bathing (I try to bathe almost every day, he's had about 4 with me so far). I think it's growth, but I actually thought he'd stopped growing due to his age and he's been this size for ages.

Is he growing too fast? Or is he just happy now and thriving, growing as he should have been all these years?

 

[zovick]

Hello.

My horsefield is over 10 years old. He was living with my parents for this whole time until last week when he joined me.

His condition was not good, he was living on fake grass no substrate, basking lamp which was 50 Celsius, eating only lettuce with no supplements the list goes on...

I took him in and he is now on suitable substrate, correct temps and varied diet. I only feed him an amount the size of his shell every day- this is usually kale mixed with some leafy greens. He's tried carrot too to try help his beak growth & I sprinkle on calcium every other feed. Sometimes he does not eat all of his food so I throw it out.

I noticed this huge white line around his entire shell today while he was bathing (I try to bathe almost every day, he's had about 4 with me so far). I think it's growth, but I actually thought he'd stopped growing due to his age and he's been this size for ages.

Is he growing too fast? Or is he just happy now and thriving, growing as he should have been all these years?

That white line is normal new growth. Just FYI, you should continue to soak the tortoise daily to keep it well-hydrated.

 

[LudusPlus]

That white line is normal new growth. Just FYI, you should continue to soak the tortoise daily to keep it well-hydrated.

Awesome, thankyou!

I will up the soaking to everyday and won't skip any days thanks for the help.

 

[Tom]

Hello.

My horsefield is over 10 years old. He was living with my parents for this whole time until last week when he joined me.

His condition was not good, he was living on fake grass no substrate, basking lamp which was 50 Celsius, eating only lettuce with no supplements the list goes on...

I took him in and he is now on suitable substrate, correct temps and varied diet. I only feed him an amount the size of his shell every day- this is usually kale mixed with some leafy greens. He's tried carrot too to try help his beak growth & I sprinkle on calcium every other feed. Sometimes he does not eat all of his food so I throw it out.

I noticed this huge white line around his entire shell today while he was bathing (I try to bathe almost every day, he's had about 4 with me so far). I think it's growth, but I actually thought he'd stopped growing due to his age and he's been this size for ages.

Is he growing too fast? Or is he just happy now and thriving, growing as he should have been all these years?

They don't/can't grow too fast if housed and fed correctly.

Start here and look for the temperate species care sheet at the bottom:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[LudusPlus]

They don't/can't grow too fast if housed and fed correctly.

Start here and look for the temperate species care sheet at the bottom:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

Hi, he is been fed the correct amount and is in good conditions.

I was more asking if the bad conditions beforehand stunted his growth, as he hasn't grown for years but now suddenly he has began growth after I've improved diet, feeding, UV & environment conditions?

 

[Tom]

Hi, he is been fed the correct amount and is in good conditions.

I was more asking if the bad conditions beforehand stunted his growth, as he hasn't grown for years but now suddenly he has began growth after I've improved diet, feeding, UV & environment conditions?

The amount of food doesn't matter. They are grazers and should be fed as much food as they want all day every day. What matters is the quality of the foods. Lettuce and carrots are not good tortoise foods in any quantity. Broadleaf weeds, flowers, leaves and succulents should make up the majority of the diet, and occasional soaked pelleted food helps to ensure that there are no nutritional gaps. If grocery store foods must be used, amendments need to be added. All of this and much more is explained in the link I left for you.

Some of them are permanently stunted, while others will resume normal growth and hit normal size once conditions and diet improve. There is really no way to predict it. Too many variable. Looks like your guy has resumed growing, but just 4 days of new and better food and conditions is usually not enough for that.

What substrate is the tortoise on now? Most "suitable" substrates sold in pet shops over in the UK are not suitable at all. Substrate is explained in the link too.

P.S. We have a family friend that has been over here since he was a teenager, but he was originally from Sheffield. He still has his accent, and his face lights up whenever we ask him anything about the entire UK. Welcome to the forum!

 

[LudusPlus]

The amount of food doesn't matter. They are grazers and should be fed as much food as they want all day every day. What matters is the quality of the foods. Lettuce and carrots are not good tortoise foods in any quantity. Broadleaf weeds, flowers, leaves and succulents should make up the majority of the diet, and occasional soaked pelleted food helps to ensure that there are no nutritional gaps. If grocery store foods must be used, amendments need to be added. All of this and much more is explained in the link I left for you.

Some of them are permanently stunted, while others will resume normal growth and hit normal size once conditions and diet improve. There is really no way to predict it. Too many variable. Looks like your guy has resumed growing, but just 4 days of new and better food and conditions is usually not enough for that.

What substrate is the tortoise on now? Most "suitable" substrates sold in pet shops over in the UK are not suitable at all. Substrate is explained in the link too.

P.S. We have a family friend that has been over here since he was a teenager, but he was originally from Sheffield. He still has his accent, and his face lights up whenever we ask him anything about the entire UK. Welcome to the forum!

Thankyou for the link! I have been panicking a bit because his previous conditions where so awful.

I'm transitioning him from his lettuce only diet with a few things. He likes kale, I've tried watercress but read this isn't great. I gave him dandelions which he didn't even try so I'm going to find some fresh flowers and keep trying. He has flower based pellets to substitute but he doesn't really like those either.

His substrate actually isn't good after reading the link. It is a soil made mostly of coconut fiber, it holds humidity a bit too much for him as a horsfield I think.

I'm currently building a deeper enclosure for him too as his current temporary one he cannot dig much. I bought the hardware for this today I just need to purchase the substrate, which I think I'll go for the one you suggested that has less of an odour lol.

I'm quite literally a poster child for not buying children these pets. I was 13 when I asked for a tortoise and I thought my parents had set him up okay, only to now get him 10 years (I moved our at 18, just got him now at 23) & realise everything is wrong. I hope I am doing the right thing by keeping him in my care and doing better by him every day.

Thankyou for the kind welcome and advice I have been hesitant to ask for help because I know he isn't currently in 100% the best conditions as I'm still learning and transitioning him from really bad ones. I'm praying I can get it right, I've only had him solo for 1 week and I love him so much

 

[LudusPlus]

@Tom I've just ordered my guy a bunch of fresh flowers & weeds online (I live in the sheffield city center so I can't really forage) hopefully he tries some and I can keep ordering. (Editing to add they're stated as pesticide free but I'll obviously check each item is safe and wash it)

I'm going to start growing plants too. We already raise cacti and other plants, I just got a mint plant today. I highly doubt he'll like eating that though, its more for me

My next steps are to finish the enclosure I'm making- it's going to be temporary again as it isn't as big as I'd like but deeper than his current one. I don't want to mess him around too much since it puts him in a mood but the improvements necessary. I'll set this one up using the care sheet so it's bang on.

I have an appointment with a specialist exotic vet in 10 days mainly because his beak and nails have been neglected and are too long to naturally trim quickly but I'm going to get a general overview on his health.

 

[Tom]

Thankyou for the link! I have been panicking a bit because his previous conditions where so awful.

I'm transitioning him from his lettuce only diet with a few things. He likes kale, I've tried watercress but read this isn't great. I gave him dandelions which he didn't even try so I'm going to find some fresh flowers and keep trying. He has flower based pellets to substitute but he doesn't really like those either.

His substrate actually isn't good after reading the link. It is a soil made mostly of coconut fiber, it holds humidity a bit too much for him as a horsfield I think.

I'm currently building a deeper enclosure for him too as his current temporary one he cannot dig much. I bought the hardware for this today I just need to purchase the substrate, which I think I'll go for the one you suggested that has less of an odour lol.

I'm quite literally a poster child for not buying children these pets. I was 13 when I asked for a tortoise and I thought my parents had set him up okay, only to now get him 10 years (I moved our at 18, just got him now at 23) & realise everything is wrong. I hope I am doing the right thing by keeping him in my care and doing better by him every day.

Thankyou for the kind welcome and advice I have been hesitant to ask for help because I know he isn't currently in 100% the best conditions as I'm still learning and transitioning him from really bad ones. I'm praying I can get it right, I've only had him solo for 1 week and I love him so much

Substrate terms can get very confusing because the manufacturers and sellers misuse the different terms in an effort to sell more product. You don't want coco fiber. The long hair like fibers can cause impaction. You want coco coir, aka: coco peat. No chips either. Be sure there is no soil and no sand in the mix which is typical of boxes marketed for tortoises.

Tortoises eat what they are used to eating. It takes time to transition them onto new foods. Few tortoises will just walk up to a pile of unfamiliar food and eat it. Start small. Mince up a tiny bit of the new stuff and mix that up with the chopped up greens for the day. Gradually add more and more of the new stuff over a period of weeks or months. It takes time to introduce new and better foods.

Don't worry about that humidity. While horsfield tortoises can certainly survive low humidity, they don't "need" low humidity. More humidity is actually better for them. It helps them grow smoother,

I had a box turtle as a child and I too did everything all wrong because that is what the pet store and the vets told me/us to do. It was awful. I don't know how he survived. This brings me to my final tip for you: Vets don't know tortoises. There is no semester on tortoise care in vet school. The vets get their info from the same wrong sources that everybody else gets their info from. The only difference is that they charge you a bunch of money to tell you all the wrong stuff. Be careful. Refuse any "vitamin injections". Realize that most of what they tell you about tortoise care will likely be wrong.

 

[LudusPlus]

Thankyou @Tom

I've chosen a vet who also owns a tortoise as I desperately need his nails and beak trimming. Hopefully I can learn how to do it myself but once it's done this time I should be able to naturally keep them trim.

I don't have many other concerns with him apart from this so I certainly won't let them inject my tortoise or anything similar, thanks for the heads up.

 

[zolasmum]

Thankyou @Tom

I've chosen a vet who also owns a tortoise as I desperately need his nails and beak trimming. Hopefully I can learn how to do it myself but once it's done this time I should be able to naturally keep them trim.

I don't have many other concerns with him apart from this so I certainly won't let them inject my tortoise or anything similar, thanks for the heads up.

You are giving him rather too much calcium - a small amount.-a pinch - twice a week, is enough - and if you can, rub it into his food in case it is putting him off. It is fine for him to eat as much as he wants - it takes time for a tortoise to get used to anything new, so keep trying different things. My Hermann's tortoise loves radicchio -perhaps because it is red , and I think it is generally popular with them.
Are you in the UK?
Angie

 

[LudusPlus]

You are giving him rather too much calcium - a small amount.-a pinch - twice a week, is enough - and if you can, rub it into his food in case it is putting him off. It is fine for him to eat as much as he wants - it takes time for a tortoise to get used to anything new, so keep trying different things. My Hermann's tortoise loves radicchio -perhaps because it is red , and I think it is generally popular with them.
Are you in the UK?
Angie

Hi Angie,

Thanks for the tip. I will lower calcium to a couple sprinkles a week. He also has a cuttle bone but he hasn't touched it since I gave him it about 7 days ago.

I am in the UK yes I just ordered online a selection of tortoise safe weeds and flowers to try him on, but I will give other options I can buy at the shops a try, too.

Overall I've gathered I need to switch his diet to more weeds and flowers, a little less calcium, go to daily soaking & I just bought a new enclosure I'm setting up that will have a much deeper substrate for digging.

I just changed his UV light to a more powerful one and a warmer basking spot and he woke up straight away this morning and ate some food usually he has been sleeping and not waking until I make him lol

 

[LudusPlus]

@Tom @zolasmum

Duncan (my tort) has never been hibernated in the past 10 years. I don't think at the moment he is very healthy and he's had a lot of stressful but positive changes with more to come.

Am I supposed to be getting him to hibernate? Or is it best to wait for next year and see if he follows course now he's getting better.

 

[zolasmum]

@Tom @zolasmum

Duncan (my tort) has never been hibernated in the past 10 years. I don't think at the moment he is very healthy and he's had a lot of stressful but positive changes with more to come.

Am I supposed to be getting him to hibernate? Or is it best to wait for next year and see if he follows course now he's getting better.

Zola, our Hermanns tortoise, has never hibernated - to start with, he wasn't very well when we got him, and basically we never tried, as he seemed to get through the winter happily awake with us -he is 23 now, and very strong and alert. I think you are right not to mess Duncan around this year, and think about what to do next year - it isn't essential, but I think experts like Tom would recommend it -Duncan might find it hard to adapt to, though.
I live in Devon, by the way.

 

[Tom]

@Tom @zolasmum

Duncan (my tort) has never been hibernated in the past 10 years. I don't think at the moment he is very healthy and he's had a lot of stressful but positive changes with more to come.

Am I supposed to be getting him to hibernate? Or is it best to wait for next year and see if he follows course now he's getting better.

If it were me, I would plan to brumate, even if only for a shorter time frame. I think it is natural and good for them. Some will argue you should wait, but it might do this poor guy a break to give his systems all the a rest that they've never gotten.

Ether way can work. This thread might help you decide, though I am admittedly biased toward brumating animals that would brumate in the wild.

Tom's Brumation Thread

Every fall we get bombarded here on the forum with all sorts of questions and problems regarding hibernation and tortoises "slowing down" for winter. The purpose of this thread is to talk about all aspects of this subject, to dispel some of the myths and mysteries, and give a "how to" list of...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[LudusPlus]

Thanks to you both. I'm going to have a read and make a decision.

His proper food should arrive soon, I also have a friend at work with a female horsfield who grows his own weeds & flowers and he said he'd help me out which is great because they where expensive.

 

[LudusPlus]

Just wanted to post an update comment if anyone was interested. We're still 5 days away from the vet checkup/beak & nail trim.

Duncan is immediately chowing down on the leaves and weeds I got for him, but he doesn't seem to recognise that flowers can also be food. Oh well xD I've been substituting with the lettuce leaf mix (green & red) and very small amounts of rocket, kale & some celery (I got uncut celery so he's been mostly having the leafy part). **ive just read celery is on the no feed list so he wont be having this again, though it isnt toxic** He's been eating mint leaves too but I'm pretty sure the plant is dying lol.

I've been bathing daily and he's been doing healthy poops & urates (I was concerned beforehand because he was not pooping but now his diets corrected I think all is well).

Hopefully nothing is found at the vet I will be sure to consult the experts here if anything is offered or suggested to Duncan beyond a trim up.