Is me again.

[TurtleTableGuy]

You still wrong

Man why come back if you arent gonna listen. These people genuinely care about your baby and are trying to give you useful information.

 

[Kwakin]

This site tends to be very professional and helpful. This person seems to be out for revenge or proving someone wrong. Either way, it spicing up my Wednesday.

I just dropped in just now to see the conversation, but now I gotta go dog sit a friends dog, alright, see you guys in 1-2 hours.

 

[Obbie]

Let me know that specific needs so i can learn instead of judging and talking sh*it dont you think that is better teach than judge? Maybe you know something that i don't

My biggest concern is predators, of which you have many down there.

 

[sudanesesulcata]

My biggest concern is predators, of which you have many down there.

He is protected against any predators because like i said so many times already he is outdoors but not the way you think he is in a closed environment open top with a predators protected lit wich keep his humidity and heat also in a roof
That protected him from rain .so don't worry about a rat eating the baby .

 

[[email protected].]

But we are talking about ur situation. Yes it is different where I live, but I'm not talking about that. And wherever u live, whether it's in Florida, Asia, or Antartica for all I care, you SHOULD NOT house a baby outside. Doesn't matter if they are enclosed. We aren't here to bash you. We only want to help, but you seem to be getting aggressive with us.

As a 3rd party reading this whole entire thing, clearly Helena F. HASEN'T read any of the parts describing the diamond mesh used to completely protect the baby from predators. NOR does she have any idea of the type of temps and humidity that are present in south Florida year round. (I just came back yesterday from north Fl with lowest temp being 78 degrees and lowest indoor humidity at 72). Helena F., I found your comments to be completely judgemental and rude. How could they not be when your telling someone you hope they give their tortoise away to someone who actually cares about it! HOW OFFENSIVE! It would be hard not to swear! IT IS PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO TURN NEW OWNERS AWAY FROM THIS IMPORTANT EDUCATION BECAUSE OF YOUR JUDGEMENTS AND DO WAY MORE HARM TO TORTOISES BECAUSE OF IT!!!! YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED!

 

[Chubbs the tegu]

 

[[email protected].]

Helena F.
Since you feel so inclined to offer your judgements, i ask: "How ignorant does someone have to be to suggest a tortoise getting ANY outdoor time in south Florida would need a basking light or a UVB bulb!" What a stupid thing to say! ?? I hope you pick up a book someday and btw, i am only saying that because I care!

 

[[email protected].]

Lots of back and forth here, and I will chime in only to add my 2¢ worth. Since you do seem to refer to the visual proof that you are doing right, let's look at your proof:

Your tortoise is continuing to pyramid. This is visual proof that conditions aren't just right. The new growth is pyramiding since you've had it.

Here's your photo showing how well its doing. Note the arrows I added. Those point out growth since you had it and show the pyramiding progressing. Zoom in to see it better.

View attachment 309983

Here's one of my 4 month old sulcatas with notes on growth I look for. See the difference?

View attachment 309984

I think what most people miss is that "weather' - temp and humidity is not what matters as much as the microclimate the tortoise can find to hide in. Tortoises are masters of taking advantage of microclimates. Baby and young tortoises spend 98% of their time hiding. They find a spot that is protected from the sun and virtually 100% humidity. They normally will have something touching the top of their shell holding in that moisture as well whether dirt or plant/grass fronds, leaf litter, etc. In Florida, California, or the Amazon, or Indonesia, you put a tortoise in an enclosure and you immediately alter the weather of your area and create a microclimate that is much different. The walls of the enclosure, the substrate you choose, the type of hides you have all change the environmental conditions your tortoise chooses to spend the bulk of its time in.

You like visual proof. Look at all the tortoises raised in their home ranges, yet raised in enclosures in semi-captive environments. They all are pyramided. Here's a photo from the largest managed population of Burmese Star tortoises at the preserve in Myanmar in the heart of their most desirable home range:

View attachment 309991

They all are pyramiding. In the heart of "perfect climate" for them.

It is not the climate, but the microclimate. As soon as you put an enclosure outside anywhere, you alter the climate and limit the tortoises ability to find that perfect microclimate. As well as humidity, temperatures fluctuate too much with sun/no sun, night/day. The gut biome that is needed for health and metabolism is altered tremendously by lowered temperatures. Many of the bacteria needed for digestion in a tortoise gut dies off at temps below the high 70°s. In their chosen hiding spots in the wild, temperatures are extremely stable vs what it is out in the open a few feet away. In an enclosure outside it is extremely hard to control that.

We are learning more and more about what really keeps a tortoise healthy and thriving. Most breeders, including Kenan Harkin, and even zoos, are not keeping up with that and rely on the old outdated info and 'what worked for them" but didn't kill it! What I like about the forum is there are members here who are not content with that. We test and look for better. "Good enough" is the worst enemy of "great". Do you want good enough for your tortoise or great?

Thank you for the pics. Is newbies don't know what to look for and that's why we're here. So that we can do the best we can and get as much knowledge as possible! Thanks again for the pics

 

[deniseabsender]

Yes, follow Tony to his grave...
I love this forum and the genuine interest that participants have in doing the best for their turtles. It is a sham that sometimes a Karen decides to disrupt the community.

 

[[email protected].]

I was wondering about something... When i soak my Ragnar, i have sprinkled grass in his water and he chases it around and eats it. It gives him something to do incase he's bored, lol. Do you think he gets more water this way and it helps with hydration? I know it helps with exercise, lol. That little piggy would eat all day if i let him!

 

[Hamiltondood]

I was wondering about something... When i soak my Ragnar, i have sprinkled grass in his water and he chases it around and eats it. It gives him something to do incase he's bored, lol. Do you think he gets more water this way and it helps with hydration? I know it helps with exercise, lol. That little piggy would eat all day if i let him!

wouldnt hurt to do that but tortoises usually try to climb out either way (like a tortoise treadmill). i dont think it makes a difference tbh..

 

[Clueless Tortoise]

As a 3rd party reading this whole entire thing, clearly Helena F. HASEN'T read any of the parts describing the diamond mesh used to completely protect the baby from predators. NOR does she have any idea of the type of temps and humidity that are present in south Florida year round. (I just came back yesterday from north Fl with lowest temp being 78 degrees and lowest indoor humidity at 72). Helena F., I found your comments to be completely judgemental and rude. How could they not be when your telling someone you hope they give their tortoise away to someone who actually cares about it! HOW OFFENSIVE! It would be hard not to swear! IT IS PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO TURN NEW OWNERS AWAY FROM THIS IMPORTANT EDUCATION BECAUSE OF YOUR JUDGEMENTS AND DO WAY MORE HARM TO TORTOISES BECAUSE OF IT!!!! YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED!

I never meant to be rude or hurtful. I never cussed or sweared, but the OP never described the set up until later. Its not that serious. The OP decided to not listen to other's advice. I am not the only one who agree with this. Pipe down.

 

[Yvonne G]

I think this thread has run its course. I'm closing it before someone says something they'll be sorry for. . . something that gets them kicked off the Forum.